Is Failure Fatal or Is Failure the Ultimate Redirection for Good?

Episode Transcript

Liz Moorehead (00:48.682)
Welcome back to Beyond Your Default. I am your host, Liz Moorehead, and as always, I am joined by the one and only George B. Thomas. George, you are back. You are back. You abandoned me for two weeks, and I understand you needed a vacation and heavy air quotes, time with family, but we need to address the fact that you abandoned me and all of us for two weeks. How are you? Was it worth it?

George B. Thomas (00:58.7)
Yes.

George B. Thomas (01:04.3)
Yes.

George B. Thomas (01:13.588)
Yeah, I'm doing great. It was worth it. I got to about day three or four though. And to be honest with you, started itching a little bit because I do like to be at my computer. I do like to be creating content. I do like to be adding value. But I pushed through that, got past like day three or four. And then all of a sudden, I was like, OK, this is really good. I'm really enjoying this. And so.

The beach, the sun, some beverages, maybe the casino here or there, because we were on a cruise for all the listeners just knowing what the vacation was. But it was really great because I had the entire family there. We flew Seth in from Oregon, and then I also flew my mom and my dad in. And so there were eight of us on a cruise ship for 10 days, and it was absolutely fabulous.

Liz Moorehead (02:10.038)
That's amazing. I am so happy for you. But being the mid Atlantic East Coast petty woman that I am I will say I remember you started posting your first initial photos of being on the cruise and at the beach right as the northeast was just getting pummeled.

with snow and ice. Literally, you left and my first day at work without you, a world without George, which was very devastating for me. Don't function well that way. We lost power. Two of our clients, we all had to cancel our meetings because in Mississippi, they had freezing temperatures to the point where pipes were bursting in houses. And meanwhile, George is just, he took all the good weather with him.

George B. Thomas (02:31.376)
Perfect timing.

George B. Thomas (02:57.024)
Yeah, it was funny because the first day we were on the cruise, my parents got a message from my brother, because they're from Montana. And he's like, well, good time to leave. It's negative 30 here. And then we got a message from some of our neighbors and they were like, well, you guys picked the perfect time because it's like 30 degrees, which for North Carolina is very, very chilly.

Liz Moorehead (03:22.334)
Oh, it was wild. I mean, I live in Connecticut currently, and it was colder in Knoxville, Tennessee than it was in Connecticut. It was cuckoo bananas. But we are not here to talk about my grievances with the weather.

George B. Thomas (03:32.404)
Yeah, I know it's no, but what I what I what I find funny about the intro to this podcast episode is my timing for vacation is the exact opposite of what we're talking about today because it was not a failure. It was a large success as far as the timing that we decided to go on vacation. So that's fun.

Liz Moorehead (03:50.757)
No.

Liz Moorehead (03:57.142)
I think we need to take a moment, I think we need to take a moment and recognize the flawless segue that you just slid right in there. The flawless just, you know, speaking of success, have you heard of failure? I know, I know it was so funny when you and I hopped on the mic this morning, are you excited to talk about failure? Oh, as excited as all of us are ever going to be. But I, I

George B. Thomas (04:11.356)
Yes, and the opposite of that.

George B. Thomas (04:23.788)
And I said, I have plenty of practice.

Liz Moorehead (04:26.966)
We're both super good at it, which is what we're gonna talk about today because I have surprisingly a lot of complex feelings about the topic. And I think, you know what, George, I wanna just start, let's get right in with a question. What is your earliest recollection of failing in a really big way in your life? And I'm talking about that moment that really colors how you thought about failure from an early age.

George B. Thomas (04:29.366)
Yeah, yeah.

George B. Thomas (04:44.685)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (04:56.392)
Yeah. So I want to answer that, but I do have something that I want to kind of preface. No, maybe that's not the word. I just want to put something out there because I want the listeners to make sure that we've packed our backpack in the proper way for the rest of the conversation that we're about to have. Okay.

Liz Moorehead (05:18.702)
It's time to pack a snack in a backpack.

George B. Thomas (05:21.096)
It's a snack and a backpack day. So the first thing is, there's a quote, and I'm gonna start with the quote because it's really important to understand what this quote is saying. It says, winning is great, sure. But if you're really gonna do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat and go on to win again,

you're going to be a champion someday. And this is Wilma Rudolph. By the way, when I see the words champion someday, I want to replace that with you're going to live a life beyond your default, right? Because that's why we're here. That's the conversation. And on this journey of a life beyond your default, you're going to have trials and tribulations. Ladies and gentlemen, trust me, this has not been a straight, paved, easy road to get where.

where we are and yours won't be either. Failure or failing actually doesn't matter. It's what you do after that feeling of failing or failure. So let's get to your question, like, what's the earliest thing? And I kind of started to feel sad when I started to answer this question, because I type out some notes.

because you asked for the earliest, but I realized that I had about a seven year period that I should probably call the dark ages of my life because it's like failure, right? And so when I think about this, the first one that I would say, man, this is a huge failure was dropping out of high school. But Liz, I have to...

I have to share with you this seven year period. It started with dropping out of high school. Then I got an honorable discharge from the Navy, which I thought I was gonna be in there for life, right? 20 years and retire and I lasted almost three. And then was just, then I, from the Navy, I went to Faith Ranch. Some people who have listened to historical podcasts know that part of the journey, but I left there.

George B. Thomas (07:41.492)
And I didn't leave there because I was going out on a great, like, mission of life. I left there because I met a girl. Huh. But we'll get back to Faith Ranch later on. Losing several jobs, getting a divorce, and not having any direction in my life. Seven years, those main things were just like bam, bam. And I'm like, wow, I was really great at failing.

Liz Moorehead (07:50.09)
Women.

George B. Thomas (08:08.56)
during the dark ages of my life. And for me, failure meant that I was less than. Failure meant I was worthless. Failure meant I was a screw up, right? I'm not lovable, likable, nor did I think that the failures I had to go through, the dark ages of my life, would add any type of value to my life or others.

at that point. I just thought it like it. Like I'm jokingly calling it the dark ages, but it was a dark place in my life where I was just simply trying at that point to survive because of all the failures and or perceived failures and the way that was impacting my brain to where I thought I was in life at that moment.

Liz Moorehead (09:09.886)
You know, I have to be honest. It's both validating and hard to hear your answer. Because when I created that question, I mean, every time I write a question for this show, I always just reflexively answer it for myself. And hearing your answer, I...

Our answers rhyme in a way. There were definite dark periods. I'm coming out of one right now where I realized, hey, it wasn't necessarily failure, but I've had to learn to make jokes of, you got divorced twice from the same guy, ma'am? And I've learned to make the joke of, well, why do something soul crushing once when you can do it twice for twice the price? But still, it's just like, ugh, the dagger.

George B. Thomas (09:41.763)
Mm.

George B. Thomas (10:02.17)
Hmm.

Liz Moorehead (10:09.49)
right? But I love what you said there about perceived failures. Because one of the things I did a little activity last night that I think you might find very interesting. I wrote down a big list of all the things that were possible in my life because I failed at something.

George B. Thomas (10:10.531)
Yep.

George B. Thomas (10:32.92)
Oh, this is fun.

Liz Moorehead (10:34.878)
Yeah. And for example, for the vast majority of my 20s, I felt like a complete failure. I went to Boston University. I went for the wrong reasons. I was entirely depressed, and I never finished. I never finished college. And then while my friends were in college and finishing and doing all the things that they were supposed to be doing, I was off on this different track.

They're worried about finals and boys, and I'm worried about rent, and how am I gonna get a job without a bachelor's degree? Because it was before the job market crash, it was before they started making, you know, bachelor's degree or commensurate experience. And I remember there was just this really incredibly dark five to seven year period where I felt different, other, disconnected from my community, disconnected from my family, and all of these little different things.

I remember all of the job interviews that I took and then I was devastated when I never got them, the relationships that completely failed. And the reality is, is I would not be sitting here on this mic with you having this conversation and not in like the little, well, because I ordered a burrito at breakfast that one day in January 2007, I'm talking about the fact like I don't even know who the person would be if I had quote unquote succeeded.

And I had this incredible moment speaking to students at Quinnipiac University. They had marketing students and they were talking about how you ended up in your career. And I said in a completely backward way, never finished college. Meanwhile, all these people next to me were talking, well, so I went and got this degree and I did this, that, and the other, I'm like, so I did none of that. But here's what I can tell you.

George B. Thomas (12:25.165)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (12:27.242)
And I had this completely non-traditional path, this completely non-traditional trajectory. And looking at that list last night of all of the wins, the successes that came out of those things, I wouldn't change a damn thing. I wouldn't change it. It hurt like hell, but you know.

George B. Thomas (12:42.286)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (12:45.964)
Yeah, it's so, yeah, but, but it's interesting because there is, first of all, there's going to be an echo on this podcast because what you just did and what you just said, I'm like, oh, I know that I am going to say something very similar, but in a very different way. So this is going to be fun. Um, but Liz, when I hear you say what you said,

You know, you're the one amongst others that basically what I heard your answer was to them is, well, I failed my way to success. And there is a power internally that should come with being able to say that. Because there's one thing to like just have overnight success, which by the way, usually doesn't happen. And if it does,

many times get screwed up. But when you've had to go through the trenches, you've had to go through hundreds of hills and valleys, you've had to get punched in the face a thousand times, and you still arrive at the opportunity to speak to young minds and inspire and power them. And part of the conversation is I failed my way there. That's empowering.

Liz Moorehead (14:16.33)
I think the other thing that was really interesting too about that moment when I was speaking to those students is that nobody thought of what I was talking about as a failure. I think sometimes we carry these wounds within us of places where we fell short, places where we didn't do the thing quote unquote that we were supposed to do and we have the expectation that people are going to hold us to those standards. And the students had incredible questions. They were like, well, wow, you were self-taught. What resources did you use?

What certifications did you go after? Well, if you worked, if you were working from the time you were 19 until now, and now you're your own business owner, and you are a respected expert in your field, what jobs did you take?

What did you learn from them? And there was this really great girl who said, I already feel like I'm behind. And this girl is 21 years old. She's like, if I don't get this internship and done, I'm like, oh, first, sweetheart, you are exactly where you're supposed to be. You are right on time. You have no idea what lessons you are going to learn and where you're going to learn them from. Do not panic if you don't have this figured out at 21. I am 41, and we're still, we're still workshopping and focus grouping a few things.

George B. Thomas (14:58.184)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (15:13.922)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (15:19.125)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (15:27.876)
I'm sorry.

George B. Thomas (15:28.584)
Yeah, yeah. Listen, when I was on vacation, I was having a conversation with somebody and these words came out of my mouth. Shoot, I'm 52. I still don't have it figured out. Like, that's the thing. You just need to realize it's one step at a time. It's one minute, one hour, one day, one week at a time. And you'll people who are resilient, who have grit, which is important to this conversation. You build yourself in a way.

Liz Moorehead (15:39.607)
Uh-uh.

George B. Thomas (15:57.856)
You enable yourself with the superpower of being able to figure it out along the way. Now, here's the one thing I do want to pull out of what you just said. You talked about wounds that we carry around. And there's so many times that I've had to ask myself this and forgot to ask myself this. And I want to ask the listeners with this visual of wounds, these failures that you might be carrying around.

You realize that you have Neosporin and Band-Aids in your life, right? You realize that you can fix those wounds. They can be healed. You don't have to walk around this world with gaping holes in your life because you haven't taken the time to fix them. And that's the challenge that I would give the folks. If you're sitting here listening to this and you've been beating yourself up because of

perceived failures versus what we're about to get into when we talk about this conversation around failure, please do me a favor and heal. Take time to heal those. Listen to the words that we're about to talk and use those as the medicine for you to actually move forward in a very, I'll say stronger, empowered,

George B. Thomas (17:18.576)
way for the rest of your journey.

Liz Moorehead (17:22.541)
Okay, you know, I'm observing a significant delta, a gap between how you used to think about failure and how you think about it now. So how would you define your relationship with failure now and what caused this change?

George B. Thomas (17:34.209)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (17:40.436)
Yeah. So, so let's recall for a second, a couple of minutes in the podcast, I said, failure meant I was less than, failure meant I was worthless, failure meant I was a screw up, not lovable, likable. There was zero value that would be added to myself or the world because of these things. Your question now goes hand in hand with the question above, right? Because failure

meant I was learning. And boy, during that seven year dark age period, I was learning fast. I was learning at hyper speed. Because if you think like boom, failure, learning. So instead of like having failures, I now call them life lessons, or the ability to learn ways not to do things. But I...

Gotta say that it's not only the ability to learn those lessons, but then change the strategy that I use the second, third, fifth, 17th time that I go back at doing something. Failure also now means that I have ammo to help others in the future. Let me explain that because that's a little bit kind of maybe of a weird concept.

But one of the things that I think about with my stories and the reason that I was so just wanting to do this podcast is I feel like I have this belt of ammunition that I have been given these stories that these hells that I've had to go through that have been able to be turned into things that will help impact people's lives. So.

I believe that many of the things that I've gone through in life, Liz, my, and I'll use air quotes here, even though you're probably listening and can't see me air quoting, these air quote failures have actually been by design to be then used as a tool to help others who cross my path, who have made the same failures and are struggling with the same internal thoughts and external actions in their life.

George B. Thomas (20:01.792)
I don't want anybody listening to this to think that I've, you know, always thought of it this way. Like you said, there's a large Delta, like the way that I thought about failures and the way that I think about learning lessons or life lessons now, it all changed for me, because this was part of your question. In about a 45 minute.

timeframe. And I've mentioned Dave Wright on a historical podcast. Dave Wright was a pastor at Trinity Baptist in North Canton, Ohio, where we started to go to church by some interesting things that happened. Go back and just listen to the episode. Anyway,

George B. Thomas (21:00.552)
I'm not lovable, likeable, I'm worthless to God is setting me up for a great success. I don't know what it is yet, but I realized something. Now at the beginning of this 45 minutes, I would say that I felt like trash. By the end of this 45 minutes, I realized that I was a treasure.

Now, the title of the sermon was called Treasures in Trash Cans. And the concept was basically taking something that is trash and turning it into a treasure. And Dave, during this 45-minute period, used examples of things that could be considered trash, but when remanufactured, actually become

treasures. One of the ones that's, and there's multiple things, but one of the things that sticks to my mind, and ladies and gentlemen, you can Google this after you get done listening to this episode, is Kopi Luwak. Now Kopi Luwak is, just Google that and Google coffee, because there's this little animal that goes around and eats the coffee beans.

They don't actually chew them, but they digest them. And there's enzymes that actually happen and interact with these coffee beans. And then they release them. In other words, they like poop them out. The, it must come out. The harvesters will then go around and get these beans and then they will be turned in.

Liz Moorehead (22:48.398)
What goes in must come out.

George B. Thomas (23:00.152)
to coffee. And what you would think of because of this like sort of gross process, those beans are trash. This coffee sells for hundreds of dollars.

hundreds of dollars for small bags of it. Because no, I'm telling you, ladies and gentlemen, you can Google afterwards, it becomes a treasure. It becomes a treasure, but one would think of it as trash. And so we had all these examples of trash to treasure moments. And so

Liz Moorehead (23:20.782)
Kidding.

George B. Thomas (23:40.208)
I realized the realization in the 45 minutes, in the examples that were being used, is that I'm not trash, but I'm being molded. I'm being transformed into who I need to become. And I started to think about, and you've heard me, Liz, talk about life's chisels and hammers and how we're shaped with

saws and things that are hard and hurt instead of like tissues and toilet paper. Our perceived failures are life's chisels, life's hammers, being used to create the masterpiece that is us. My failures do not define who I am.

George B. Thomas (24:33.652)
I learn from those failures and what I choose to do next does.

Liz Moorehead (24:43.19)
Meanwhile, I'm looking at a picture of this raccoon looking tree's dweller. The common palm civet is the name of the animal that makes our fancy expensive coffee. If you think I won't be linking this in the show notes with absolutely no context whatsoever, you are wrong. You would be incorrect. That.

Liz Moorehead (25:11.21)
I want to yes and what you said. Because there's a part of me that is an absolute 100% agreement about what you were saying, that ability to contextualize failure and understand that there's my favorite quote from Benjamin Franklin, right? And I've mentioned this one to you, which is things that hurt, things which hurt instruct. And

George B. Thomas (25:14.8)
Okay. Yeah.

George B. Thomas (25:38.831)
Yes.

Liz Moorehead (25:41.262)
there are ways to think about failures in which things that seem destructive are actually quite constructive. There's another maxim you hear a lot thrown around, rejection is redirection. Sometimes you don't end up with the things you want because those things were not meant for you. Right? But the reality is we have to confront the fact that in many cases failure, it hurts like a bitch. It hurts.

George B. Thomas (25:51.918)
Yes.

George B. Thomas (26:01.323)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (26:10.282)
a lot. And I wrote about this in the Beyond Your Default newsletter last week about this idea of like, you know what, guys, sometimes things are just going to suck. And sometimes one of the most important parts of the process is just being in the suck. I struggle with and we're going to be talking about this in a future episode, toxic positivity has a long

George B. Thomas (26:11.137)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (26:39.766)
insidious tale that reaches into a lot of different toxic behaviors in terms of how we treat our feelings and think about our feelings and how we look at the world. But in the context of failure, one of the things that I particularly over this past year learned is that sometimes the best thing you can do is not try to make something constructive out of something.

maybe the reason why you are where you are in the first place is because you did not sit with uncomfortable feelings. Because I've noticed one of the things that at least I have had to work on is this idea of I need to learn how to just be uncomfortable. I need to stop trying to remove pain. I need to stop taking actions from a place of, well, my Fifi's hurt. I don't want to feel this way anymore. I don't want to think about this thing anymore.

And so George, my question to you is, how do you find that line for yourself of being in the suck constructively because sometimes you need to sit there and knowing when it is the time to reflect? Do you know what I'm trying to say?

George B. Thomas (27:49.772)
No, I do. I do. It's funny because a couple of things are coming to my brain. One, the song by Garth Brooks, Thank God for Unanswered Prayers. I don't know why it's coming to my brain, but like, I'm like, yeah, like, no, you know, maybe those things that I wanted weren't meant for me and thank you because I know I was praying for this, but I got this and I'm in a way better place. And so, the reason I'm bringing that up is there's a sense of

Liz Moorehead (28:00.278)
What a great title.

George B. Thomas (28:19.836)
letting it do what it's supposed to do, and having faith in the fact that it's gonna be where it's gonna be, and so are you. The other piece that's coming to my mind is like we wouldn't do this other places in life, right? You're not gonna half bake a cake. It's gonna be crappy.

Like, you're not gonna, you know, half build a model. You're gonna wanna like take it to completion so you can see the beautiful work that you've created. Like, literally, there's a, I hate to use the term, but there's a lot of things in life that you're just not gonna do like half-assed. You're gonna go all the way. So why is it when we're actually looking at the life lessons that we've been given?

dare I say blessings in future stories, that because we've been trained to think of them in a certain way, that we run from them and only let them quarter bake or half bake instead of fully marinate. I don't know, maybe I'm hungry. I'm using like cooking analogies and marinate, whatever, it doesn't matter. First of all, Liz, we are...

George B. Thomas (29:47.828)
uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. Failures hurt. They're painful. So the first thing that one would have to teach themselves to actually fully bake the cake that is the failure slash life lesson is to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations. The second thing and part of that is

Liz Moorehead (29:53.364)
years

George B. Thomas (30:16.712)
a human would have to realize and build out the understanding and steps of, well, it's all part of the process. It's all part of the process. It's supposed to be. And again, I'm leaning into the positive side of understanding if I keep even the most grotesque

thing that I think that I could ever do as a failure in life, if I can lean into the positivity and the lesson of it versus the negative and the gaping open wound of it, now with a process and a mindset, I can navigate that pain.

Liz Moorehead (31:05.166)
It's so fun. This is one of those things where I love the Venn diagram of the way you and I think because we have distinct overlaps, but then there are there are distinct differences. I love the way you are phrasing that. But the way that looks like in my life is very different. The way it looks like in my

George B. Thomas (31:23.096)
Well, it's gonna look different for everybody.

Liz Moorehead (31:25.054)
Well, no, but like, I'm not sitting here thinking, like, what is my failure cake going to look like? Like, I know you're not thinking that literally, but there's still an approach that is very open and welcoming in terms of how you think about failure in your life. Whereas mine is what I like to call the explosion rule, which is that if something is going catastrophically wrong in my life, in my head, I'm like, well, what are you gonna do, explode? Six months from now, whatever this is,

George B. Thomas (31:32.054)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (31:55.03)
will be over, you may have spicy new problems, but until then, you have to keep getting up and keep moving. And that is the thing I've noticed that has stood me in good stead the most in my life when I think about failures and how I've moved through them. The key word there for me has always been move. You know, you can have your moment, you can have your sads, but it's that, where I've...

George B. Thomas (31:56.419)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (32:03.757)
Yes.

Liz Moorehead (32:22.006)
where failure has become a destructive force in my life, didn't really necessarily have to do with the magnitude of the failure or what the failure actually was. It was how long I would allow myself to emotionally navel gaze about it. Because I think there's something to be said for the fact of when you have something happen in your life that is either a disappointment, a failure, a whatever, you know what, two things can be true. You can have a growth mindset about failure.

And you can also honor the feelings that you're having. You don't need to banish disappointment, shame, things. You're allowed to feel those feelings. The thing that becomes destructive is when you create a monument or a sculpture memorializing that perceived failure, and you just continue to circle it and circle it and circle it, and you just don't move on.

everything, there's a distinct before and after state where you got mentally stuck with the thing that did not happen or did not go according to plan. And that's where I think failure can become a derailing force. And I think we've all experienced this. You know, again, we're humans. We're not going to be, sometimes we're going to fail at failing with growth. You know what I mean? That's fine. But that's where I've noticed.

George B. Thomas (33:42.722)
Mmm.

Liz Moorehead (33:46.274)
things can get a little bit dicey is where you, you just continue to stare at it as if staring at it is gonna change what's happened.

George B. Thomas (33:53.76)
Yeah, it's interesting because you're unlocking in my brain and I think it kind of goes with the conversation that we're going to continue to have here is, like, it's a moment in time. And we all know that time flies by so quickly. Like, listen, at the beginning of the vacation that we kind of talked about at the beginning of this episode, you know, 10 days seemed like forever.

We got to the end of it and we're like, wow, that flew by. Like, your failure is a moment in time. It could be a 15 minute. It could be a five second. It could be. Out of the 40, 50, 80, 90 years of your life.

And Liz, like you're saying, why in God's name are you making a memorial out of it? Why are you not just treating it like a mile marker of life and driving right on past it 55 or 65 miles an hour and just heading on to the next piece, the next adventure, the next journey, the final destination? Like why now have you done a U-turn? Can you imagine how ridiculous that would look? You're on the freeway.

You're driving down the road of life and all of a sudden you see a car just going around mile marker 657. Just circling around 657. They can't leave it. They're just circling around it. Like that's mentally, mental visual. You're like, yeah, that would be dumb. You're doing that with the crap that you think that you got wrong seven years ago, right now, listening to this. Why?

Liz Moorehead (35:47.85)
I know you've already talked about this a little bit, but I'd love to hear a bit more from you about what specific times in your life, now in hindsight, you're glad that failure occurred, where you can point at something specific and say, glad that happened.

George B. Thomas (35:59.608)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (36:03.488)
Yeah. So it's funny because I mentioned earlier, there's going to be an echo in this podcast. And I said, Ooh, that's fun. When you said, Oh, I did this thing. Because if you remember at the very beginning, I said, seven years, dark ages, dropping out of high school, getting an honorable discharge, leaving faith ranch, losing several jobs, getting a divorce.

George B. Thomas (36:28.916)
Listen, if I didn't drop out of high school, I wouldn't have picked up the sponge mentality that I've been running with my entire life. We'll talk about that more in a future episode.

I wouldn't have the fire in my belly that I've had for years that have gotten me or has gotten me to the place that I am now of owning a business, employing an entire family, having contractors, helping humans, being the HubSpot whatever guy, being the beyond your default guy. Like Liz, like you said, I wouldn't be on this podcast. I wouldn't be sitting here with you this morning if that didn't happen.

I'm getting an honorable, so happy by the way, that failure happened at this point in my life. Getting an honorable discharge from the Navy. I would have stayed in for life. I wouldn't be on the journey I am now. I wouldn't have the wife, life, or kids or business that I have now. I wouldn't be sitting here doing the podcast with you, right? So same, same narrative, same things, but I know that wouldn't be happening. Leaving Faith Ranch. I would be stuck by the way. This one was hard for me because

While I was at Faith Ranch and I was doing things that I know were good things, I actually had a mentality that I've never really talked about ever with anybody that I'm going to share right now. I was hiding. I thought I was going to be in the Navy for 20 years. I got an honorable discharge. I had almost died through that whole process. I was hiding at Faith Ranch in Jude, Ohio.

Making $100 a month teaching kids how to ride horses and about Jesus because if I'm being honest with myself and everybody listening to this podcast right now, I was afraid of the real world. And this was a safe place. That's why I stayed there for three years. Not because I was doing this great grandiose mission style thing. It's because I was scared shitless about like tagging back into life and having to live in the real world.

George B. Thomas (38:38.168)
But if I didn't leave, again, the things that I learned about myself, the places that I've been, it wouldn't happen. Losing several jobs. Every single job I've had is a lesson along the way. Have you ever had one of those moments where all of a sudden you see all the dots align in your historical life and you get the goose bumps and you're like, woo, dang, I realize why I did this, this and this.

Why do I treat customers so good in the agency that we're building? Cause I was in food service. I like, I understand how to treat customers in a certain way. Like, by the way, I would, I would hire anybody who has been in food service and teach them how to do the things we do because I know there's a fundamental foundation there that just makes for a different human.

Why do I understand sales? I was a furniture store salesperson and manager in my life. Why am I so passionate about like spiritual, a youth pastor? But that could be considered massive failure. You're not in the, you're not leading a church anymore? You're not behind the pulpit anymore? No, but I use it daily. Daily. Why do I feel like I can do anything?

Can drop forage working at a steel mill if you've never worked at a steel mill You don't understand if you had a family member who has or you have you can do any job Anything so like each one of these. Oh, I got fired or I got laid off or I chose to leave It's all in there. It's all it's all been manufactured into the thing that I need to be

for the services and products that I'm providing at this point. Getting a divorce, my wife of almost now 24 years wouldn't be getting version 2.0 GBT model. If I didn't go through the divorce, she wouldn't be getting what she's getting. I know how marriages can break. So I'm paying attention to red flags and doing my part to keep us on track or on the tracks. Like...

George B. Thomas (40:59.584)
historical life lessons, aka failures. That's how I'm able to do all the things that I'm able to do. Not having direction in my life was one of the things that I said at the beginning of this podcast. If I didn't have to go through that failure, that phase of life, I wouldn't be hyper focused on vision, direction, goals, habits.

Listen, ladies and gentlemen, probably much like you, I know what it's like to be lost in the wilderness. And I don't ever want to be there again.

But I can only do this, I can only have this exercise because I take time to think about it, diagnose it, let it bake, let it marinate, accept feedback through those processes of learning, and then can say these things that I'm saying now. Liz, I feel like you might have something

that goes along with us. So what are your hindsight happiness things?

Liz Moorehead (42:17.078)
I'm going to use the most recent one because I think first I don't want to piggyback off of some of the examples you've given because I have a few that rhyme as well. I'm only in the position I'm in professionally because of very specific things that happened, things that I actually looked down on myself for when I was younger. That was something I discussed with the students at Quinnipiac. But if we want to take a look.

Let's just look at the messy, the ick, the divorce. And it happened twice. It happened twice with the same person, which is always a bit of a gut punch sometimes to think about. And then...

I'm glad I went back.

and without getting too into the nitty gritty details of it.

When we split up the first time, I don't think I really understood why. I didn't, I knew something was wrong. I did not know how to articulate it. My intuition was screaming that, you know, just every possible red flag, every flashing warning light was going off and screaming at me. And, and that quite frankly was why I left the first time.

Liz Moorehead (43:43.326)
It was only in going back after having spent a year apart during the pandemic, it was interesting. We split up and then the pandemic occurred. And then we reconciled.

Liz Moorehead (44:02.398)
there were things I was not prepared to acknowledge. I could feel what was wrong, but I did not know what was wrong. And only in going back was I able to say, that's what I was feeling. That's what I was seeing. Because in that year, I learned to...

listen to myself, I learned to ask more questions with confidence, I cared more for myself and about myself. I didn't like myself very much for a very long time.

And because I went back and because I did it again, and then we split up again, it gave me a chance to finally resolve some very deep-seated issues that I had not addressed. There is a cycle with women in my family around unhealthy relationships. And it was something

I had never confronted within myself. It was something that I knew I had, you know, we've talked about this before on the show, my upbringing was complicated and I have a lot of love for my parents, but it was, let's just call it complicated. And it was painful. And those were issues I always talked about in therapy, but with it through a lens of hindsight.

And then there was this moment when I was sitting with my therapist and she said, you have to realize that the issues of abuse you have seen as in your past is very much in your present. And we need to talk about that now because you, this is not behind you. This is with you.

George B. Thomas (45:46.162)
Mmm.

Liz Moorehead (45:58.694)
I share this because again, like the joke I made earlier, right? Like I said, I made, you know, make the same soul crushing mistake twice. Why not? And just call me Liz Taylor, right? You know, but that I don't regret it. I don't regret going back. I don't regret trying again, because as complicated as things were, you know, this was someone who I had known since I was 17 years old. This is I.

I'd rather fail at it than say I didn't try. But also I can see now that idea of connecting the dots. I would be doomed to repeat the same mistakes, to repeat the toxic relationship cycles that have plagued me my entire life, other women in my family as well. This is not new. And I didn't see it.

George B. Thomas (46:30.54)
Yeah, yeah. Ooh.

George B. Thomas (46:54.925)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (46:57.522)
I could feel it, but I didn't see it. And then I saw it. And it gave me a chance. Like, I loved what you said about GBT 2.0 would never have been possible.

Liz Moorehead (47:10.23)
I'll admit, I went through, when I was sitting with my therapist, I said, Oh my God, how can I ever trust my instincts about men again? She's like, Well, you're not supposed to right now. You shouldn't be dating anybody right now. You should just focus on work and health and like getting your life together and things like that. But I don't but I don't feel that way. Now it's you know, you have to be able to confront and sit in the suck and do the work. But that's the biggest dot that connected for me. I feel like I have a second chance to get this right.

George B. Thomas (47:24.883)
Yep.

Liz Moorehead (47:40.286)
in a way that probably would never have been possible. I would have just continued to travel the same path, wondering why everything hurts a damn much.

George B. Thomas (47:49.684)
Yeah. So good. Thanks for sharing that. That was... I know there's going to be a lot of listeners that just get good stuff from what you just shared. So I love that.

Liz Moorehead (48:00.758)
Gosh, I hope so. I hope so. So, okay, I wanna pivot here a little bit because so much of what we talked about in terms of failure has to do with mindsets and how you're taking a look at the circumstances that are currently in front of you. So, George, what do you see as the key differences between folks who are able to bounce back from failures and those who get stuck?

George B. Thomas (48:28.64)
Yeah. And I feel like this is the part of the podcast where I take my wicker basket and just dump a couple of things out on the floor for people to look at and grab for what makes sense for them. Because this is the time. So the first thing that comes to mind is just the ability to have grit.

Liz Moorehead (48:41.154)
Grab your notepad and pens, folks. This is that time of the episode. Yep, here we go.

George B. Thomas (48:53.384)
And what I mean by that in the pure definition is courage and resolve. Strength of character. Like you have to have courage to go through the messy middle, to go through the suck. You have to have that resolve and strength of character to get back up and keep going. You, Liz, had said like, just keep moving, just keep moving. Listen, when you get punched in the fricking face, you have two choices. Get up or stay on the fricking mat. That's it.

And if you have grit and that courage and the resolve and strength of character, you get back up and you get back up and you get back up. But if you just get back up and let them throw the same punch and punch you in the face and you get back on the mat, then we've got a problem. And so with that grit and courage and resolve and strength of character, I think something that we've talked about though, and we have to have as a superpower is this learner's mindset.

being able to learn from how we just got punched in the face, have the courage and resolve to then try again, but with the feedback loop and understanding of that, oh, when they're gonna throw a right hook of life, they step forward with their left foot. Let me watch for the weight to shift and understand that I need to do this thing. So that's the exterior part of it, right? A learner's mindset, paying attention,

different the second, third, seventh time you try it. There's an internal piece though that we have to hit on this and that is the forgiveness of yourself. You even reference when you're talking to your therapist, what you thought was in your past is in your present. We have a great graphic for the baggage that we carry around for one of our episodes. It's in the present because you brought it with you. And I'm not talking to you Liz, I'm talking to the listeners.

It's in your present because you didn't set it down. And so episode 15, the power of forgiveness, part two, the healing power of forgiving ourselves, like grit, forgiveness, a learner's mindset, and then a healthy dose of just patience. Being patient, letting the cake bake. Letting, Liz, when I was listening to your story, I was like,

George B. Thomas (51:19.616)
Ah, she had to go back to read the final chapter so she knew how the book ended. Like that's literally the mental visual that I was getting in my brain as you're sharing your story. We have to have patience to get through the thing, patience to learn through the thing, patience to figure out the strategy based on the thing.

The other piece that I want to throw out here, and this is hard for many, I know it was for me early in life, but I have this, I'll call it a thread, I have a healthy disbelief in chance.

and I am completely bought into certainty.

Now, I want you to think about that for a second. I don't think things happen by chance. I think there is a destiny and a journey that each and every one of us are on. So there are certain things that are going to come. And the fact that you just think you accidentally made a failure, an issue, you accidentally had success. No.

no chance. So a healthy disbelief and chance are completely bought into certainty. When I talk about this, and hopefully this makes sense, I am, I will, and not if but when. Okay? I am statements. I am

George B. Thomas (53:02.852)
going to be successful. I am not a failure. I am to empower, to fuel, to rev up. I will be a business owner. I will add value to the world. I will. It's the action of the I am. I am to empower. I will to act.

and not if but when, meaning I'm not sitting around wondering, maybe wishy washy, but when, when I see the right moment, the right time, the I am is empowered and the I will take place. Now, if you think about where I'm dancing around, many of you have seen Groundhog style movies.

Literally, there's a Groundhog Day movie that you could be thinking about right now, but there's a style in which they try, try again. And for about the first 7 to 15 minutes of the try, try again, they try it the same damn way. And it doesn't work out. They keep making the same failures. It's like they're hitting their head against a brick wall.

Because try again isn't really it. What's it if you think about chance, certainty, I am, I will, not if, but when, it should be try, feedback, learn, try again. Try, feedback, learn, try again. You see the first one, try again is a brick wall.

Try feedback, learn, try again is the open road that you're trying to drive down as you're seeing people circle around mile marker 657 and you're on your way to a life beyond your default.

Liz Moorehead (55:15.522)
You know, your answer reminded me of one of my favorite Latin phrases, which is, astra inclinant sed non obligant, which means the stars incline us, but they do not bind us. Which means, I don't care whether you think about the occurrences in your life as fate, God, the universe, chance.

George B. Thomas (55:28.15)
Wow.

George B. Thomas (55:34.702)
Mmm.

Liz Moorehead (55:46.91)
Life will serve up experiences, but it is up to you how you decide to act upon those things. And my life got infinitely easier, particularly when it came to failure when I

when I stopped living with the expectation that something outside of myself was gonna make my life more comfortable.

George B. Thomas (56:11.82)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (56:13.398)
Because I think particularly when it comes to failure, we will take them personally. It's not, it's just life, like peaks and valleys, you know? But it really is up to us to make the decision around what role failure plays in our life. Like I had this one client a few years ago where he said something just, we were talking about, he was a Silicon Valley founder type.

But one of the types of people who call themselves an entrepreneur and it doesn't Make me want to dry heave into a paper bag because I know they're just gonna spend Many hours talking about things. I don't care really he's just this incredible man And one of the things he said is very early on I learned to look at failure as What did he say I learned early on not to think of failure as fail fatal instead

I learned to look at failure as an indication of what I'm supposed to do next.

And I just thought that was absolutely perfect.

I have a question for you, George.

George B. Thomas (57:25.241)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (57:27.106)
What's worse than failure?

George B. Thomas (57:33.346)
Man.

George B. Thomas (57:37.548)
So can we actually rewind though for a second and then I can answer that question? Because my fear is that people are running from failure. My fear is that when they fail, they don't know like how to process it. So let me just bite off a little piece here that's running in my mind about the idea of you're running from failure because you don't think that you're allowed to fail.

Liz Moorehead (57:40.527)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

George B. Thomas (58:05.992)
which means you're running from the life lessons that are going to turn you into who you need to become, which means you're being counterproductive to yourself, which is really kind of a weird paradigm to get into. So I want to set you free for the choices that you make in life to potentially lean into failing, to like live on the edge, to...

go in the direction that is scary and uncomfortable, but is very, very rewarding. And there's two things that I want people to think about. The one thing that I want you to start to run through your mind instead of running from failure is turn, face it, and say, what do I have to lose? It's a very freeing statement, by the way. What do I have to lose? And actually give yourself time to bake through that, what you have time to lose.

And what if? What if it goes absolutely, insanely amazing? What if? Right? So what do I have to lose? And what if? And the reason I'm bringing this up is because when we made the choice to start the George B. Thomas, you know, George B. Thomas LLC, and go out on our own,

George B. Thomas (59:30.712)
Man, that could be a massive failure. Like there's bills to pay. There's a house, like there's kids that need to eat. There's like a hundred thousand reasons why I should stay at my job, keep my insurance, continue to add to a 401k and do everything that the world tells me that I should do to be air quotes successful.

and run away from the fear of failure as fast as I can. But I'll never forget when my wife and I started to talk about that decision, and I said these words, well, babe, I can always go back and get a job.

George B. Thomas (01:00:23.244)
What do I have to lose? I can always go back and get another job. What if this goes extremely amazing in a direction that we can't even fathom right now? So literally the things that I said to pay attention to are the things that I did. And if I hadn't faced and run into failure, there would be no Beyond Your Default.

there would be no, you know, sidekick strategies coming. There would be no success stories of George B. Thomas, LLC. They're like, none of that would be happening if I didn't face the failure and then realize, if I fail, I go get a job. I've been working for people my entire life. It wouldn't be anything different than it was before. See, that's the thing. I think people give failure too much weight. Okay, so.

What's worse than failure? You asked me that. Not trying. Living small. Staying safe. Like those three things right there are worse than failure. Living on the edge, leaning into failure, getting life lessons.

Always realizing that building yourself into the best you is going to be through hard times, because it's the hard times that actually forge us into who we become after that fact. That's the growth model. That's the growth path. That's how you become an anomaly, something special. That's how you become the 1%. By facing fear, by leaning in,

to what the world might call failure and seeing what can happen on the other side. What if, but if you're gonna be like, I shouldn't try and I'm just gonna stay here in my safe space at Faith Ranch for three years because I'm afraid of the world, that's way worse than any failure that I've ever had to face.

Liz Moorehead (01:02:39.102)
I want to point to something you said, because I think there's another side to it. You talked about this idea of, you know, running from the failures and the importance of keeping that momentum moving forward, you know, keeping yourself moving forward. I think there is something to be said for the fact that everybody needs to develop some sort of internal audit.

to understand what is actually happening in front of you. Because I think sometimes when we experience a failure or whatever the catalyst moment that is occurring in front of you that is creating a negative feeling, those initial feelings that we have can create aversions to seeing what is actually happening. And that makes it impossible to process and actually keep moving forward in a productive way. Because I will tell you,

George B. Thomas (01:03:13.037)
Yes.

Liz Moorehead (01:03:38.114)
decades being someone who is forward moving, tons of momentum, building myself up, developing my own career. Meanwhile, I was running like a bat out of hell away from problems and I was not addressing them. And then I was just shocked, taken aback when the Piper came to collect.

right after I turned 40 and everything started slowly falling apart. Now granted it part of that had to do with me going back, trying that marriage a second time. But there were a bunch of other things that I had spent a lot of time running from because I was quote unquote moving forward. And so I think when we think about how we look at failures in our lives, we have to have those internal audit structures where we, we stop and we set aside.

the aversion feelings and say, what is actually happening here? How did we get here?

George B. Thomas (01:04:39.884)
Yeah, it's my brain is yeah, my brain is so weird. I don't sometimes I don't understand my brain. But as you're talking through this and I don't know why Liz, but I'm just tied to like visuals all the time. And for some reason, there's two visuals that are coming to mind. Like if you've ever lived in a house where you've got like the tall carpet, like, you know, and you move it one way and it looks dark brown or dark blue.

Liz Moorehead (01:04:41.25)
How did we get here?

Liz Moorehead (01:05:03.767)
Mm-hmm.

George B. Thomas (01:05:08.004)
but then you move it another way and it's like light blue and you're like, oh God, how did that, it's dark and light and dark and it's the same carpet.

is the angle in which you're looking at it, that it looks completely different colors, right? And so when we get into these failures, what's the different angle that, is it really dark or is it really light? Is it really negative or is it really positive? Am I looking at it in the right way? Like my brain goes in that direction. The other thing that came flying in my brain for some reason is, have you ever seen one of those cups? And I think I'm getting two visual analogies because I know there's different types of humans that are gonna be able to grab one of these and roll with it. But have you ever had one of those cups

It's like a thing, but then you fill it up with like a cold beverage and all sudden stuff just shows up on the cup that wasn't there before because the temperature change and now it's like a completely different scene than it was like 30 seconds ago or like hot. You put your coffee and all of a sudden it says something or does

Like, are you living life at the right temperature? Like, are you hot enough to see what you need to see? Are you staying back and being safe and being too cold? Right, so is it negative or positive? Is it hot or cold? Are you lukewarm in the middle? Like, there's just these things when it comes to failure and these visuals of perception and direction and just stop and take time to think about those and to...

I don't know, use those visual tools if they work for you. If they don't email me, be like, dude, you're weird.

Liz Moorehead (01:06:42.614)
The cup analogy worked for me. Big fan. So let's stay on this path a little bit. How can someone who struggles with fatalistic or catastrophic thinking work to shift their perspectives on failure?

George B. Thomas (01:06:44.504)
There we go.

George B. Thomas (01:06:57.908)
Yeah, I'll keep this simple. During the process of doing these episodes, Liz gives me some research things that I can look at and read. And, and then I go watch some videos and I think about stuff internally. So for this, there, there was a tidbit of information out of the research that I was like, Ooh, I really, really like this.

I want to make sure that we talk about this. So reframing your failures as great content can help you bounce back.

Now, I know why this hit me so much because I love creating content. I love creating videos. I love creating blog articles. If you asked me if I was a marketer or a content marketer, I would lean more into I'd probably be a better content marketer, although now I'm a business owner and so I do marketing, sales and everything anyway. But reframing your failures as great content can help you bounce back rather than trying to forget or gloss over.

mishaps. Use them in the story of your career. That's what they said. I'll add in, or use them for the story of your life. Okay, but this was career focused, but career or life. Don't gloss over them. Use the mishaps for the story of your career life. Experiencing failure and sharing your lessons humanizes you.

What are other humans hungry? By the way, they didn't say this part. This is my words. What are other humans hungry for? Other authentic humans. So sharing your hurts, sharing your pains, sharing the lessons learned from the failures that you've been able to go through makes you more human. I'm like, Oh, I love this so much. Uh, it can help you find common ground with others. What do we want from you? My words, by the way, we want to feel connected.

George B. Thomas (01:09:04.192)
So you mean to tell me that the failures that I go through are gonna make me more human and make me more connected to the humans that I actually wanna have in my life? Then why am I running away from them? Okay, back to their words. Once you're bouncing out of a dip, look for ways to tell your story in an inspirational way, perhaps one that boosts your personal brand.

Have you listened to the podcast called Beyond Your Default? Like we're literally creating content in a very human way to connect others to us and their best selves. And are we telling inspirational stories and inspirational? I think so. And so, hm.

George B. Thomas (01:09:48.716)
Not only does this help your cause, but it helps others too. That's where their words end. And when I read that, Liz, I was like, ah, servanthood through your lessons learned, servanthood through your failures. Looking at life through this lens of servanthood through lessons learned and servanthood through failures.

It's easy for me to say, man, I love my failures.

George B. Thomas (01:10:27.972)
I love everything that I've ever failed at in life up until this point, and I can't wait to love the failures that I have in the future.

Liz Moorehead (01:10:42.87)
I want to add two things to that.

Liz Moorehead (01:10:47.746)
There's a flip side to this failure conversation that we haven't really touched upon yet, so I'm gonna touch upon it here. This is something I have a little bit of experience with. There are too many times I have thought I have failed in my life, and I didn't actually fail. I either fell short of somebody else's arbitrary standards and considered their perspectives and their worldviews as superseding my own.

Where in hindsight, I look back and go, wow, I actually did really well there. I was giving someone else permission and ownership over defining my life experience. I was giving my power away. Because depending on who you ask in my life, terrible daughter, terrible student,

George B. Thomas (01:11:39.283)
Mm-mm.

Liz Moorehead (01:11:48.73)
lousy wife, like, you know, you can you can look back and you have to ask yourself

either circumstantially in this moment, or as a pattern throughout your life, are you allowing the wrong people to define what is success and what is failure?

George B. Thomas (01:12:12.)
Yes.

Liz Moorehead (01:12:14.146)
Because I will tell you right now, if I were to talk to my dad and talk about how proud I am of where I'm at, sure, he'd probably think, well, she didn't run everything into the ground, but I would still be a failure. I still would never, that is approval I would never get.

in that very hypothetical scenario, because that is not a conversation that could happen now. But when we think about failure, who are we allowing to decide what is and is not a failure in our lives? So that's number one. Because I think we've spent a lot of time talking today about failures that are actually a bit, we done screwed up, or something did not go according to plan, and that is factual. But there are also perceived...

George B. Thomas (01:12:48.737)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (01:13:04.429)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (01:13:11.214)
failures where it's because someone else is defining for us what is success and failure and it is not based on your values or Principles or your own measuring stick carry your own ruler cupcakes and that is what you use to measure

George B. Thomas (01:13:27.16)
And it's not even really that they're defining, we're allowing them to define what we think. Yes, and I wanted to tie back into that, just, carry your own ruler. That should be a hashtag maybe.

Liz Moorehead (01:13:34.242)
we're giving away our power.

Liz Moorehead (01:13:44.694)
Yeah, that is the measuring stick that you need. Number two, some of the biggest and most painful failures I experienced in my life, particularly those in the past couple of years, were born of the fact that I was chasing after things that never belonged to me. They were not supposed to be mine.

And I'm not sitting here saying like, well, I was trying to go, you know, I saw a necklace and it didn't belong to me and I tried to steal it and I failed. That's not what I mean. Think it, let me use a very heavy handed analogy here.

A dog will have a 100% failure rate at trying to be a cat. Can't do it. It's really good at being a dog.

George B. Thomas (01:14:24.904)
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (01:14:29.27)
What things in your life are you reaching for that are simply not the right fit for you because you were trying to be someone other than yourself? And this is something I struggled with for a really long time because I had these wounds where I didn't like myself very much. I really struggled to look in the mirror and see something worthy or someone worthy or in a value someone lovable and worth loving.

I would try to be versions of myself that I thought would be palatable, that I thought were the quote unquote, right versions of Liz. So I would go after certain types of clothes, certain types of cars, certain types of decisions, certain. But on paper, this time last year, I had a perfect life. And I was the most miserable, hollow and alone I have ever been.

I had never known such soul-crushing anguish without shedding a tear or being able to articulate what it was, because I had spent my entire life building a life that was not meant for me. I had left no room for the love and fulfillment I had so desperately sought out my entire life, because I was so afraid I wasn't gonna have it. I filled my life with stuff, and with people, and with things, and with distractions.

George B. Thomas (01:15:36.218)
Hmm.

Liz Moorehead (01:15:51.594)
that were not meant for me. And then I failed at a significant portion of it. But that's because I was a dog trying to be a cat instead of just being like the best dang dog I could possibly be.

Liz Moorehead (01:16:05.686)
So this is my two little footnotes there. Oh, I got a wow.

George B. Thomas (01:16:05.977)
Wow.

Nah, I love that. I love that so much.

George B. Thomas (01:16:16.888)
Wow. I'm sitting here and my brain is battling because I can think back to so many times in my life that I was trying to be.

instead of just being.

And that's like, it's almost like that whole thing that you're sharing was like punch me in the face of like, because you're trying to be, and you're grabbing the wrong things, you can't just be and actually have the right things that you've already been given and use the things that you've already been given and whoo. Oh, yeah.

I don't know. There's something going on in the brain. I feel like we might have to unpack that a little bit more in a future episode. But man, that was Liz. That was really powerful. I love that.

Liz Moorehead (01:17:13.05)
Oh, good. All right, George, you ready for the final question of today?

George B. Thomas (01:17:17.472)
I am.

Liz Moorehead (01:17:19.746)
All right, it's a doozy.

George B. Thomas (01:17:21.437)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Moorehead (01:17:23.146)
What would a life completely devoid of failure look like?

George B. Thomas (01:17:26.72)
Yeah. Well, first of all, ladies and gentlemen, punchline, there is no such thing. Like you, you can't have a life devoid of failure. It's like, it's just not going to happen unless you are just mentally. I don't know. I don't even know what you would have to have to believe that you've never made a failure, like, but to me, to answer the question, it would be boring.

And I would feel like I'm stuck on again that mile marker 657 just going in a circle, not learning anything, not doing anything, not like achieving anything. And to be honest with you, it would suck, in my opinion. And Liz, there's a quote by Napoleon Hill where I think ties into this. Every adversity, every failure.

every heart it carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit.

Every adversity, every failure, every heartache carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit.

Listeners, when I think about that...

George B. Thomas (01:18:52.72)
I want to have failure moments in life so that I can collect the seeds, so that I can plant them and nourish them.

and benefit from the fruit of the tree and the shade of the tree. Heck, this tree just might be that tree or set of trees that I keep talking about in these episodes where I'm like, go lean against the base of a tree and do X, Y, Z, dependent upon the episode. Maybe a failure that you have had is the seed for your tree — to sit at the base of and plan for this exciting adventure, this adventure, this journey of living a life beyond your default.