Smashing the Reset Button on How You Think + Talk About Time

Episode Transcript

Liz Moorehead (00:06.222)
I hope you leave that laugh in. Welcome to Beyond Your Default. I'm your host, Liz Moorhead. As always, I'm joined by the one and only chaos demon, George B. Thomas. Seth, our producer, I am begging you, leave this all in because, you know, that... You're right, this is gonna be a different type of episode. This is gonna be a different type of episode because you laughed in such a way before we started recording that it was both a threat and a promise.

George B. Thomas (00:24.988)
It is.

George B. Thomas (00:33.415)
Well, you were trying to, you were trying to like tell me it was going to be a certain sort of way. And I said, we'll see. And I could see that you had a response. So I hit record. And as soon as you saw that five, four, the face that you made, I was like, yep, it's going to be a different kind of episode.

Liz Moorehead (00:33.602)
How are you?

Liz Moorehead (00:50.986)
All I said was that I thought it might be a better idea if you introduced the topic. What? Okay, you know what? Hello, everybody. Again, welcome back to Beyond Your Default. Let's just start with our usual housekeeping items. How are you today, George? Other than ready to burn it all down. You're great, you're great, yeah, uh-huh.

George B. Thomas (01:08.911)
No, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I'm actually I feel great today. I love this conversation. I think it's a really important conversation. And yeah, I'm excited. I am very excited.

Liz Moorehead (01:24.718)
Mm-hmm. I don't trust you. Which means of course I trust you more than anyone on this planet, but today we are.

Dang it, we're talking about vulnerability, one of the most wildly important principles of beyond your default living. And it's also the most wildly uncomfortable topics. So of course I feel uncomfortable going into this. Not in the usual way that I've talked about in the past where I'm like, you know, this is just something that makes me feel uncomfortable, the passage of time, da, da. Like I...

George?

George B. Thomas (02:05.181)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (02:07.25)
I wish people could see us right now. We are both extremes of the vulnerability spectrum because whenever I am put in a place to be vulnerable, the intellectual part of me is very excited because I know this is the direction that I need to be leaning into. But then the other part of me starts acting like a velociraptor testing the fences. I start throwing out deflecting humor.

George B. Thomas (02:10.736)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (02:15.644)
without a doubt.

Liz Moorehead (02:37.178)
I start being bossy and fussy and you're just like turning on your virtual, yeah, you just got your virtual fireplace going on in the background. You're just, you know, you're vibing. You're chilling.

George B. Thomas (02:44.319)
I'm just sitting here smiling.

George B. Thomas (02:51.959)
I am. I'm just I'm sitting here smiling, full of joy and happiness to give birth to this conversation. And it even brought me more great joy. And the reason I laughed and before we actually hit record is because I know what's coming and I know what you said and what you wanted and I know what's coming. And so I'm just I'm just happy.

Liz Moorehead (03:14.081)
Mmm.

George B. Thomas (03:23.488)
Hahaha

Liz Moorehead (03:23.499)
Good for you. No, okay, I'll shtick aside. I'm going to lean into this. I am going to trust that this is the conversation we are meant to have today. But instead of me talking about the importance of vulnerability and getting a Webster's Dictionary defines vulnerability as, George, you have been talking to me directly about this topic ever since we started this podcast.

George B. Thomas (03:27.805)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (03:51.062)
but your conversations around it, particularly in the past couple of weeks and even in the past couple of days as we led up to this conversation, you've been louder in all the right ways. You've been passionate and why, why are you so excited about this topic? Why does it matter?

George B. Thomas (04:09.467)
Yeah, so first of all, I think that there is a ton of people who have issue with this. It is one of the things that we try to skirt by and maybe because it's scary, but also maybe because

we don't know the importance of it and how it relates to other things or correlates to other important pieces or pillars in our life. And Liz, here's the thing, like, especially for this Beyond Your Default journey that we're on, the reason that it's important, the reason that I want to talk about it is it's one of those messy middles that I've actually had to go through.

I've had my own journey with vulnerability.

And yes, there are some hot seat questions that Liz is going to ask me. But here's the here's the thing. Let me let me give you the precipice story of this. This is probably. Twenty fourteen. I'm sitting at the Cheesecake Factory. And I'm sitting at the Cheesecake Factory with Tiffany Kavane and Marcus Sheridan, and we're having a meal.

And it's a meal like any other meal that you've ever had at Cheesecake Factory, meaning it was awesome. Anyway, we're talking about something. No, I mean, I love. Well, yes, those. My kids love the macaroni cheese bites, by the way. I love the Cuban sandwich and some sweet potato fries. Anyway, not why we're here, not why we're here. We were sitting there.

Liz Moorehead (05:41.726)
all about those Southwest avocado egg rolls.

George B. Thomas (06:01.999)
And there was a major milestone coming up in my life. And this major milestone in my life was that I was going to give my first keynote speech. Not a breakout session, keynote speech. And Marcus said to me, you have to open your keynote with that. And I said,

George B. Thomas (06:28.975)
He must be out of your mind dude. There's no way I'm starting my keynote with that he goes Trust me. You need to start with that. I'm like, I'm not starting with that. I've been running from that for 25 years Nobody needs to know about that And he said these words to me cheesecake factory. I'll never forget he said

Dude, until you learn how to embrace vulnerability, you'll miss the magic moments in life.

And it hit it hit a sort of kind of way. And so I said, I hear you, but I don't know if I want to start with that. So I gave us some thought. It's like two weeks later, I get to Minnesota to do Minbound and do my first keynote where I'm talking about marketing and HubSpot.

Liz Moorehead (07:01.922)
Oh.

George B. Thomas (07:27.547)
ROI and all of the nerdy stuff that I do in daily life. And they introduce me. I step on stage.

I paused for a minute. By the way, that pause. People might have thought it was for dramatic effect. It was me internally going, am I really about to do what I'm about to do? Like, are you stupid? Like you are about to let the world know about your inner idiot. You are about to let the world know about your darkest secret.

You're about to let everybody know why they shouldn't listen to you for the next 45 minutes.

And then I pressed the clicker. And it was a black screen, and it was white text. And it said, I'm a high school dropout.

George B. Thomas (08:29.755)
And the audience started to laugh. To which then, in the mic, I said, no, I'm a high school dropout. There were a lot of less laughs, but still some uncomfortable giggles happening. And then I said, I'm a high school dropout. Let me tell you why. And you could hear a pin drop.

And for the next two to four minutes, I talked about how my math teacher told me I would never amount to anything, and how I believed him, and how that dramatically changed the belief in what was possible and what I could do. And my fear is that somebody in their life had told them something around that professionally or personally.

And to hear what I'm about to say and to do what you need to do after this keynote, you're going to have to embrace getting past those moments. Liz, for the next 40, 35 to 40 minutes, you could hear a pin drop. And it was magical. But it was only magical because I embraced this power of vulnerability, of letting people know that

I'm messy, that I'm human, that I'm real, that I have my own journey, instead of trying to get on stage and look like this perfect, polished professional speaker. Immediately, they could connect with me. And some great things happened, by the way, after that. Like, first of all, one of the HubSpot employees came up to me and said, don't ever do that again. I said, why? He said, because I felt like a

Butthead Because I was one of the people laughing at first I go I can't control how you interact with what I say But I can tell you right now the way I feel I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life I had a lady who came up, you know, how you shake hands and give hugs and she was like Man, I want you to know I really connected with your math teacher story and I said thanks, you know I appreciate it, you know, cuz you just you're trying to be nice to people that she goes. No, no, no

George B. Thomas (10:52.623)
I don't think you understand. She said, for me, that wasn't my mother. And we sat there and we sat there for 15 to 20 minutes and we talked about life and forgiveness and family. And it had nothing to do with marketing, nothing to do with ROI, nothing to do with content. And when she walked away, I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. When she walked away, I was like, God.

I wanna do this right here for the rest of my life. Like I fully understand why you have put me on this planet and I feel like Marcus gave me the key to unlock its full potential. And that's being able to be vulnerable, being able to be ourselves.

Liz Moorehead (11:48.414)
You know, in hearing that story, number one, man, OK, so I'm going to have to be really honest in this episode. So thanks. Wonderful. Yeah, I'm starting to lean into this thing where I'm like, oh, it's an episode about being vulnerable. I actually have to be vulnerable in the podcast, and that's fun.

George B. Thomas (11:56.375)
Uh huh. Yep. See?

George B. Thomas (12:05.164)
Mmmm

Liz Moorehead (12:12.91)
Yeah, yeah. You know, when you introduce this topic, you said at the start of this, a lot of people struggle with it. And I know we're going to be talking later on in this conversation about the whys behind it. But you know, when I think about my relationship with vulnerability, it is not just I struggle with it. I fundamentally

shut that part of myself off for decades. So if we wanna talk about what my relationship with vulnerability looks like, I'm gonna share some things here that I've talked about somewhat in the abstract, but it's usually something I don't speak to very explicitly. And this is part of why I'm not vulnerable about these things. Because sometimes when you have to be vulnerable about things, it forces you to talk about things where the immediate concern I have in my head is,

Will people think I'm trying to get pity? Will people think differently of me when they know these certain things about me? You know, there are all of these little mental trappings that can appear or show up as resistance to being vulnerable. But if we were to turn the question on me, right, like how has my relationship with vulnerability changed over the years? Well, we have to start with the fact that I grew up in an environment where I could not be vulnerable.

I grew up in a very verbally and physically abusive environment with a parent who had bipolar but was also an alcoholic. So any treatment that person was getting did not, it was completely undermined. So from a very young age, I had to take on a caretaker role.

because I was either in an environment where emotional expression was not a safe thing for me, or I had to be a kid who acted like a parent. So vulnerability was just not something that was really programmed into my DNA at a young age. As I got older, what's interesting about my parents is that I'm an elder millennial. I was born in 1982, but my parents are not.

Liz Moorehead (14:39.042)
baby boomers, they are actually older than that. They were silent generation parents. Which is a much different temperament. Like when I would hear stories about millennial parents being helicopter parents and trying to make sure everything's perfect and friction free for their children, I'm like, I don't know what parents you're talking about because those were not my parents. My dad once told me, Liz, there's one thing you need to understand about this world and that's it's the real world doesn't care about your problems.

And that was a very informative thing to hear at a young age. And I will admit, I'm still 50-50 split on what I feel about that phrase, because part of me is like, I think it's true. I think a lot of people need to like kinda, like I get you have problems, but stop making it the problem of everybody else. Like get your ish together. But that was a very, that is the one thing I remember my dad telling me growing up.

You know? So I really struggled with vulnerability for a really, really long time in my life. It's something where even now I still struggle with it. And George, I know you've been on the receiving end of some of this over the past 18 months. One of the things that this journey I have been on over the past 12 to 18 months is, you know, I made a lot of choices. I got a divorce. I decided to blow up my whole life. I knew that I couldn't keep living the way I was living. I had architected a life of fear.

George B. Thomas (15:35.224)
Yeah, no.

Liz Moorehead (16:04.766)
And one of the things that I have had to come out of is understanding like, Liz, you have to talk to people. You have to talk to people. You have to learn how to tell people what is going on, how to ask for help, explain what it is that you need, reach out to people. And so it was weird. For a while there last year, I felt like a broken faucet where I either would bottle everything up and nothing would come out or too much would come out all at once.

and then I would kind of freak out and not know how to handle it. I'm starting to stabilize a little bit because I think, I don't know, I had this really interesting experience last week with someone new who has come into my life, just a very dear person. And it made me realize I not only have a challenge with expressing my own vulnerability,

but also accepting the vulnerability of others. Because this is where it gets really interesting, right? Because if you're not comfortable with being vulnerable yourself, I am willing to bet whether you realize it or not, you have a problem with accepting vulnerability from others. Because it's not just a discomfort with your own feelings. It is a discomfort with everybody's feelings. But for the first time, this was a conversation where I allowed a two-way street of vulnerability to occur. And we were sitting there.

and we were having this incredibly deep conversation, things that I never talk about, in the middle of a very public place, and this person turns to me and expresses something very deep, but something that happened to them. They had gone through a really tough, dark time mentally. And I remember I just kind of sat with it, and I was like, oh my God, I can't believe he's sharing this with me. And he said, I just hope you know how comfortable I feel around you.

And I looked at him and I said, I just hope you know how glad I am that you're here. And there was this moment where we were looking at each other and he said, I guess we hug now. And it's probably the first time like.

Liz Moorehead (18:19.582)
It was a long way for me, you know me well. Like me talking to people is hard. Me accepting this kind of stuff from people is hard, but I use that as the bookend to this end of my answer of my relationship with vulnerability because.

George B. Thomas (18:22.408)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (18:39.682)
feelings were something I always chased.

Liz Moorehead (18:45.794)
but I ran from them equally. And part of the reason I ended up in a very lonely place toward the end of my marriage, and the thing that I have had to confront personally, is that there is a reason why psychologically and subconsciously I chose that relationship, because I didn't have to be vulnerable. Was I lonely? Was I sad? Yes. But did I have to open up and be vulnerable to anybody? No.

George B. Thomas (18:48.232)
Mm.

George B. Thomas (19:15.535)
Yeah. So, so it's funny because part of my giggle and part of my face and why we had the beginning that we had was when I was crafting my notes and going through this conversation today was I thought about you. Well, roughly about four to 40 times. And yeah, well, maybe four to six, maybe four to six times, maybe eight times. I don't know, it might have been

Liz Moorehead (19:16.382)
and I'm learning that, you know?

Liz Moorehead (19:35.87)
What?

Liz Moorehead (19:42.526)
Doesn't matter.

George B. Thomas (19:43.407)
It might have been eight to 12 times, but I thought about you because like there were just different pieces of this and I was like, Oh, she, she doesn't, she doesn't know what's coming. I want to back up because I want to talk to the listeners for a minute. And because I want to answer the question that they might be asking themselves. They're listening to a podcast. It's called beyond your default. We're having a conversation about vulnerability.

And they might be wondering like what makes this conversation so important. You kind of alluded to that to the beginning before I told my story. But I want to dig in a little bit more deeper of what makes this conversation important to you as a beyond your default listener on a beyond your default journey.

And Liz, when we talk about vulnerability, especially for those of us who are striving to be top performers, own our growth, have that mindset, it might seem...

like a little bit of a paradox at first, Liz, that we're living in. I mean, vulnerability can feel like we're opening up our armor or a way that I visualize it is that we're letting down our walls and showing the soft spots that for much of our life, we are just really trying to protect. But here's the thing, and this is.

Crucial for everyone listening to understand embracing vulnerability is actually a powerful move. Dare I say it's a superpower that you can leverage as you move forward on this journey to a life beyond your default. It is one of the superpower pillars. And I like to think about it this way. When you're vulnerable, you're saying, hey, I don't have all the answers. But that's OK.

George B. Thomas (21:35.375)
This mindset opens you up to new learning and experiences, which are essential for where we're trying to go and what we're trying to do, and that is personal growth. Without vulnerability, personal growth becomes very difficult, if not almost impossible.

And I think back to it's almost like when I started in the digital marketing agency space, I was I was out of my depth. And I mean, years and years ago, I had to admit that I didn't know everything. Heck, heck, I might have admitted that I didn't know anything. And those admissions. That moment of vulnerability with myself.

was what allowed me to ask questions, seek mentors, watch a metric butt ton of lynda.com and YouTube videos slash tutorials, and ultimately accelerate my growth far beyond what I could have achieved on my own.

especially if I had not been vulnerable and done what happens most times in life, and that is lie to myself and ignore the 20,000 pound elephant in the room thinking it'll just remove itself without destroying the entire house at some point on its way out the door.

By the way, I'm saying me, but I also mean you, the listeners, might actually be ignoring the 20,000 pound elephant in the room because you're not willing to be vulnerable with yourself or vulnerable with others in your life. For top performers and those with growth mindsets, aka listeners of this podcast, by the way, vulnerability becomes the key to unlocking genuine progress.

George B. Thomas (23:15.279)
It allows us, it allows you to connect with others more deeply, leading to a better collaboration or collaborative and innovative world that you live in. Think about the last time, by the way. I need you to like, if you have to close your eyes, close your eyes. But I want you to think about the last time you were part of a team where everyone was open about their fears and weakness or weaknesses. By the way,

Liz Moorehead (23:31.414)
I'll close my eyes.

George B. Thomas (23:44.295)
There's a large portion of you that are like, I can't find that time, which is shameful. There's probably a small portion of you that, yeah, I remember that. Wasn't there a deeper sense of trust, a greater collective drive to overcome the challenge? Didn't it just feel better? Didn't it feel right?

Okay, you can open your eyes, but again, there's those two polar opposites. And the funny thing is, even if we know how right it felt and how great it was, getting back there seems to always be difficult. Not to mention this, owning your vulnerability can lead to a more authentic life. We've had these conversations. It helps strip away the facade or what I like to call masks that we often feel compelled to uphold.

I'm going to start a set of hashtags, hashtag no masks allowed, hashtag beyond your default journey. These need to be a thing where we just talk about being our authentic self and being able to leverage that or enable that through this idea of vulnerability as a superpower, vulnerability as the thing that leads you into being the victor of your life. When you're real.

or better said, when you're honest with yourself and others, there's a kind of freedom that comes with it, a freedom to be yourself fully. No, you know, and we might've mentioned this on the podcast before, you know, be your whole ass human self. By the way, this authenticity is a magnet. I mean, it is magnetic when you can embrace this and become this person.

Liz Moorehead (25:21.922)
Hehehehe

George B. Thomas (25:32.919)
It attracts opportunities and people who align with your true self. And honestly, I think vulnerability has been a silent partner in my success in life.

Because it's been my ability to lean in and understand since that conversation with Marcus of the power of vulnerability. So listeners, if you're aiming to live your best life or foster an ownership mindset, start by embracing this topic that we're having and jot down notes, get everything out of the next sections that we're going to talk about around being vulnerable or vulnerability. Let these hopefully next 30, 35 minutes.

teach you, change you, lead you to your authentic strength because it's not about being weak. It's about understanding where your real growth can happen. And trust me, as a guy who has gone through this, leaning into your vulnerabilities is where you'll find your most incredible power and ultimately your personal, professional, and relational success that you're looking for.

Liz Moorehead (26:39.842)
Speaking of where you've come from with this. So I've already opened the doors, the floodgates of vulnerability. You started talking a bit about that story of that talk where you opened in a way that you didn't expect. And that led to other greater connections for you. But I would be curious to hear, that wasn't your first rodeo with vulnerability. That wasn't the first time you've tap danced around it or with it. What has that?

relationship with vulnerability looked like over the years. How has it shifted for you?

George B. Thomas (27:13.159)
Well, let me ask you a question. Is that where you want to go right now? Or do you think that the listeners need to know a little bit more about what we actually mean when we use the word vulnerability?

Liz Moorehead (27:25.514)
Okay, so let's, all right, let's cut here for a second because I screwed up earlier. I went with my inner cupcake and screwed up the order of the questions. So, Seth, just cut all of that part. So, I couldn't tell if you had defined it. It sounded like you had. So what we'll do is we're gonna go into the definition, then we'll go into your relationship. I've already talked about mine and then we'll just keep going. So I'm so sorry about that. That's my fault. Okay. Morning, hi Seth, we love you.

George B. Thomas (27:47.943)
Yep. You're good. You're good. Morning, Seth.

George B. Thomas (27:54.887)
This is how the sausage gets made.

Liz Moorehead (27:56.695)
Look, this is what happens. I talk about my feelings and I get all screwed up. Thanks a lot, buddy. No, I'm just kidding.

George B. Thomas (28:00.44)
It's all good.

Liz Moorehead (28:04.723)
All right, we'll bring it back in here.

George, I love everything that you're saying, but word nerd alert, word nerd alert. Before we get too far into this conversation, I think we need to circle the wagons and get very clear on what our shared definition of vulnerability is. So when we say vulnerability, what do we mean?

George B. Thomas (28:16.176)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (28:31.175)
Yeah, I love this. I think this is a great question. I think Liz that starting with the basics around any conversation is always a smart move. And when we talk about vulnerability, we're really exposing ourselves to the possibility of being hurt or judged. Sounds great, right?

But fundamentally, like that's vulnerability means, yeah, means people are like, and just stop the play button. But really, if you cut it down to its core, it is really about this, like the ability, or even sometimes dare I say willingness, to expose ourselves to the possibility of being hurt or judged.

Liz Moorehead (28:53.602)
Thanks, I hate it.

George B. Thomas (29:14.291)
Most of us mere mortals immediately think, yo, no, I'm good. Like, bye. Like even just your response right now was that. But it's about letting down our guard and showing our true selves, including our fears, hopes, dreams and limitations. It's really that raw, honest state where you're open to both. Like, ladies and gentlemen, did you hear that? Open to both good and

bad. So many times we're just trying to show all the good, all the good, all the good, but open to both the good and the bad that can come from genuinely connecting with others and facing new challenges in our life. Liz, can I break this down a little bit more?

Liz Moorehead (30:03.719)
My dude, go for it.

George B. Thomas (30:05.263)
Okay, okay, because I think it's crucial for the listeners, you, me to understand the depth of vulnerability, to harness it and to harness its power. Imagine that you're at a conference about to give the biggest presentation of your career. This might sound familiar.

Feeling vulnerable in that moment isn't just about fearing that you might forget your lines or that your tech might fail. It's also about stepping into the spotlight, sharing your ideas and the risk of criticism on the words that came out of your mouth. It's about the possibility of not living up to your own expectations or those of the audience.

But here's where the magic happens. When you embrace that vulnerability, you're not just saying, here I am, flaws and all. You're also opening the door to genuine connections. Here's a dirty little secret. People relate to imperfect, ah, here's a dirty little secret. People relate to imperfection because it's the human condition.

This is why I had the conversation with the HubSpot employee and with the lady about her mother, because it was the imperfections that created the condition for the connection. We're all a little broken. And when you share your true self, you give others permission to do the exact same. This creates a space of mutual trust and respect where real growth can occur.

with you and the other individuals that you're around. Vulnerability is also about embracing, and so many people get scared of this word, and I know because I was one of them. Vulnerability is also about embracing uncertainty in life and taking risks. Listeners, I'm gonna ask you right now, and I want you to write down into your notepad, your iPad, whatever you're using, are you a risk taker?

George B. Thomas (32:14.267)
The answer to that question is going to tell you a lot about who you are and your current relationship with vulnerability. Embracing vulnerability in your life is about saying yes to opportunities even when you're not 100% sure of the freaking outcome that is about to happen. Ladies and gentlemen, this podcast, not sure. My business, not sure. Hiring and leading humans, not sure. Having kids.

Not sure getting married, not sure. You know how many decisions I've made and I'm not sure. You know how many things that I have just had to like, hey, here we go. And this aspect is essential for those of us who have a growth mindset or are trying to build a growth mindset. We understand that failure isn't a reflection of our worth.

but a stepping stone to a greater knowledge and capacity. We understand. If you do not understand this, I'm gonna say this differently. You need to understand in your life that failure isn't a reflection of who you are and your worth. Failure is a stepping stone to greater knowledge and who you are on a journey to become.

I'll let that sink in for a second. You have to understand that failure isn't a reflection of your worth, of your worth, of your worth or who you are. Liz, in a nutshell, when we think about vulnerability and all of these pieces and elements, which you can see that this is like a core piece to a lot of connective tissues. In a nutshell, when we speak of vulnerability, we're talking about the courage to face potential emotional exposure.

risks and uncertainty, yet move forward anyway, because the potential for personal and communal or relational growth is just too stinking valuable to ignore. It's about showing up and being seen, no matter the stakes, no matter the stakes.

Liz Moorehead (34:43.654)
I don't feel attacked by any of that. I'm fine. I'm thriving for everybody at home, just wondering how Liz is doing in this conversation. What I find interesting though, is the question you asked us about how willing we are to take risks. And my brain split right down the middle, and I bet there are going to be other people in the audience who will relate to this.

George B. Thomas (34:47.315)
Good.

George B. Thomas (34:51.731)
Hahaha

George B. Thomas (35:07.108)
Explain.

Liz Moorehead (35:09.298)
I've never had a problem taking big swing for the fences risks in my life. So here's where it gets interesting. I've been the person where people in the past have said, Liz, it's wild. One day you'll just wake up and decide, yep, the sky's purple now. My whole life is different. I'm doing this. I'm moving here. This is what's happening. I've always been decisive in terms of what I would call life action risk taking. Because the way I am wired in my head

once I have a sufficient amount of data to make whatever decision it is I need to make, I will just make the decision. It's a fascinating thing where there are a lot of ways I get tripped up with fear and I'll get stuck in a lot of ways, but there are certain aspects of my life where I actually am the entire opposite, where the fear bug isn't there. I just say, well, I now have all the data. What am I going to do? Sit on it and do nothing. But the emotional risk taking is a wildly.

different type of risk. So when we ask ourselves in the context of vulnerability, how comfortable are we with risk? I guarantee a lot of the high achieving growth mindset jokers who are listening to this podcast have likely done a lot of the same things that you and I do, which is if we are waiting to feel confident about the big decisions we are making in life, we will be waiting forever and nothing will ever get done. But in terms of the emotional risk taking, that's a,

That's a whole different ball of wax. That is completely different. That to me is a completely different category of risk taking.

George B. Thomas (36:44.719)
Yeah, it's funny because my brain goes to, of course everybody listening to this who is a growth minded entrepreneur are like, yes, of course I knock a softball out of the park, but can you hit a marble?

Liz Moorehead (37:01.816)
How dare you? All right, fine. You know what? Back in the hot seat you go.

George B. Thomas (37:03.017)
Mmm.

George B. Thomas (37:07.397)
Yep.

Liz Moorehead (37:08.046)
because you are sitting here defining vulnerability, talking about talks you've given, where you've connected with people and shared your story. But I would actually genuinely like to hear how your relationship with vulnerability has evolved, because we've already talked about mine, but I want to hear yours, because I know you didn't just start here.

George B. Thomas (37:22.429)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (37:26.119)
Yeah. By the way, I always love a good hot seat. So it's it's. And this one is extremely toasty because, ladies and gentlemen, I used to be a card carrying member of Masks Are Us. I was real good at hiding who I was and not stepping out into the real area or potential to possibility and success in my life. I was more than willing. Almost strived.

Liz Moorehead (37:29.887)
Yeah, we do. Nice and toasty.

George B. Thomas (37:56.275)
to just play it safe. As a guy, by the way, this conversation of being vulnerable can be real tough, real quick. I'll talk about that in a little bit, but sometimes when you're growing up as a guy, you hear the word vulnerable or vulnerability and you think weak or worse yet, sissy.

masculinity and vulnerability sometimes feel like they're from completely different planets in freaking different galaxies. But they're not. Now, if I fast forward today, I think I've been able to improve my vulnerability. I mean, I put myself in vulnerable positions every single day. Heck, sometimes I sit back and wonder if I've reached the point where I might have a problem with it.

Liz, I've had days where I've asked myself, is this how most humans live? And then I quickly remind myself, I'm not trying to show up like most humans. So why do I care about that? But I feel like I live on this let's push the envelope side of living a life filled with vulnerability at this point. Now, that being said, and in complete honesty, because I can I can easily say the softball and the marble statement because.

I will take big leaps, but in small intimate settings, I'm scared to swing the bat. And so I'm still working on pushing myself deeper into it on a daily basis because I think I'm great at being vulnerable again in some life situations. But man, do I radically suck at it in others.

Liz Moorehead (39:41.666)
Give me an example. Where do you still suck at it?

George B. Thomas (39:48.447)
I can start a business, I can start a podcast, I can throw content out on the internet all day long.

George B. Thomas (39:58.323)
To have an intimate conversation with a friend or family member scares the absolute ish out of me most times. Because I know how messy I am and how messy I've been. And to think about allowing somebody else the space to be messy, I don't need more mess in my life, but I do. Because it's when we actually get into the mess that we become the best. But I still struggle with that piece of it.

And I know that Liz, your brain might be exploding because you see me with people and you see what I do and you see the conversations that I have. But what nobody can see is the internal spinning of the wheels and smoke in the brain that is happening when I'm forcing myself into those moments. And what they can't see is the times that I have probably blatantly just run.

from allowing that conversation or moments to happen in my life.

George B. Thomas (41:01.223)
Here we go. The seats getting hotter. No, no, no. I, by the way, I'm not beating myself up about this. I just know that there is always room for me to grow in this. And what's funny is sometimes when I say that I know there's growth, but I don't know the direction of growth in this case right here. Not only do I know that there's growth, but I know what direction the growth needs to be in.

Liz Moorehead (41:03.529)
Do you think you're the only one who feels that way?

I know that.

Liz Moorehead (41:30.11)
Why is it messy though?

George B. Thomas (41:32.451)
Humans are messy. What are you talking about? Like we all have we're all broken. We all have our ish We all we're all just trying to make the best out of what we have been Born into Created bad or good decisions we've made We are we are these crazy thinkers, uh massively emotional beings

And when you have the vulnerability to open the door and let somebody start to dump You're curious if it's going to be a great victorious moment Or are they just unpacking their laundry list of how their life sucks and sometimes I'm like I Just can't I just I don't want to anyway

Liz Moorehead (42:21.058)
That gets me into my next question because this is a conversation where I think a lot of people get tripped up, right? And this is something where I've struggled in the past. Am I being vulnerable or am I doing something else that is not psychologically healthy? So when I ask you what vulnerability isn't, what comes to mind?

George B. Thomas (42:43.535)
Yeah, I think it's what comes to mind and why understanding the difference of what it is and what it isn't is like important. I think that that's...

Liz Moorehead (42:52.574)
Let me ask that again, George. So I'm saving that. I'm doing it as a, so just answer the one question first and then we'll push the follow-up. Or do you want me to lump it together?

George B. Thomas (43:01.187)
Okay. I think this is the one that I wanted lumped together.

Liz Moorehead (43:06.438)
Oh, okay. All right. All right. Seth, we're doing great today. Thanks for talking about our feelings. It's actually a really good episode. It's just it's making my skin hurt. OK. OK, we're doing great.

George B. Thomas (43:10.855)
Yeah, we're killing it.

George B. Thomas (43:16.382)
NNNGH

Liz Moorehead (43:22.694)
George, this gets into the part of the conversation that I think is critically important for us to have. It's where I usually meet the most resistance. It's where I can't understand if I'm being vulnerable or if I'm being something else. So when I ask you what vulnerability isn't, what comes to mind? And most of all, why is important? Why is it important for us to understand that difference?

George B. Thomas (43:48.823)
Yeah, yeah, it's um, man, this is like the, you know, you got like a teeter totter. And there's like the centerpiece without the centerpiece, the teeter totter doesn't exist. This understanding is like that center piece. So I want to start with a dope quote, by the way, because when we do research, you throw some quotes in and I have to be honest, you knocked it out the park with these two quotes that you put in there. So

Liz Moorehead (44:16.421)
Yes!

George B. Thomas (44:18.043)
First quote that I want everybody to kind of jot down on the notes is there is a difference between vulnerability and telling people everything about yourself Vulnerability is a feeling Telling everyone about yourself is just facts and details and that comes from Simon Sinek so Liz let's clear up some common misconceptions about vulnerability because getting this right

in my mind is critical to using it effectively in our personal and professional and relational lives as we move forward. First off, vulnerability isn't weakness. As I alluded to earlier in the podcast, this is a huge one to unpack. Often people think being vulnerable means you're opening yourself up to being wounded as if it's a chink in your armor.

But in reality, it takes a tremendous amount of strength to say, here I am. This is my truth. These are my challenges. And I mean, that takes a lot of strength. It's not weakness. Think about it. Doesn't it require a lot more courage to show your true self than to hide behind a mask? Punch line, the answer is yes.

So like, stop doing it. Anyway, that strength, that courage to be vulnerable is a powerful driver of growth and authenticity. Now this next one is huge, especially in a world filled with social media platforms. Vulnerability is also.

not over sharing. It's not about pouring out every detail of your life to every single human that you meet. It's about intentional openness and sharing what's relevant to foster genuine connections. It's about discerning when and with whom to share your thoughts and feelings. Liz, I have these strange moments in life.

George B. Thomas (46:22.759)
where I will be going about my day in a normal manner and somebody will be saying something. And all of a sudden it is like a freight train enters my brain. And I will literally hear like, tell this story. Say this thing.

And it always, to me, has now become this almost, if I hear that, I know I'm supposed to share because it is contextual.

to the thing that they're dealing with or the thing that they're saying, or it's something that is going to help them unpack and understand something to move forward. Now, did I just in the middle of them speaking, start to talk about like my new medication, my compression socks, and the fact that I have a bunion on my big toe? I don't have a bunion on my big toe, by the way. I'm just throwing that out as comedic relief. No, no, it was contextual to what was happening in the moment.

And I love that, by the way, but sometimes that gets scary, because you're in a situation where you're like, I but I don't want to share that story. Like I, I understand that it might help them, but it's going to hurt me to relive, to reshare. But what's nice is you can get past that and just become a vehicle to share your stories, to help people reach the success that they're trying to reach. So.

It's about though, in those moments for me, because by the way, there are times where I'll just be like, shut up, George. I know that's your default story. When you hear somebody say that thing, today isn't the day. They're not ready. So it's about discerning when and with whom to share your thoughts and feelings. And understanding this helps maintain professional boundaries and personal integrity when you can lean into it.

George B. Thomas (48:24.399)
Additionally, vulnerability isn't about seeking sympathy or playing the victim, by the way. And if you have trouble with this one, make sure you go back and listen to episode 22, which was the victim versus Victor mentality episode. Super dope episode. Absolutely love it. But being vulnerable is about being open to growth and connection. It's not a bid for attention, but a step towards understanding and mutual respect.

When you approach vulnerability with the goal of bettering yourself and perhaps others rather than just getting something off your chest, you turn potential struggles into lessons and opportunities. By the way, two things that every human should be desiring more in their life are lessons and opportunities. Also, Liz, I love the fact that you asked me why it was important.

to know the difference between what it is and what it is not. I mean, this is the center of the teeter totter. Understanding the distinction between what vulnerability is and isn't helps in making sure we approach it in a healthy, constructive way.

George B. Thomas (49:45.487)
Vulnerability has the ability to be a double-edged sword. And I need you to know that.

It has to be used for good, not for evil. It can never be manipulated. I mean, it can be, it shouldn't ever be manipulated. Knowing what vulnerability represents can empower us to engage with our environments and relationships more deeply. It helps us navigate when to be open and how much of ourselves to share, leaning to...

meaningful interactions and more authentic life moments. Not noise and nonsense. So when we harness vulnerability correctly, it becomes, Liz, you ready for this? Are you ready? It becomes a catalyst.

Liz Moorehead (50:49.858)
I'm ready.

George B. Thomas (50:55.807)
for courage, resilience, and ultimately transformation, both personally and professionally. Heck, Brene Brown and the other quote that you shared may have said it the best. The intention and outcome of vulnerability is trust, intimacy, and connection. The outcome of oversharing is distrust.

disconnection, and usually a little judgment.

That's my answer for the difference between the two and why it's important to understand the difference.

Liz Moorehead (51:40.906)
You know, I love what you shared there. I think this is where I've personally gotten tripped up in the past because even now, when I think back to the beginning of this conversation, there's still a part of me going, should you have shared all that? Should you have shared all that? Even though intellectually I knew it was important to the conversation, even though intellectually I know it's part of the conversation, I think depending

on what your relationship has been shaped to be with vulnerability as you've grown up, you may accidentally think something is oversharing in a way that will create distrust and judgment when in reality, being truly vulnerable will always require some element of, okay, you have to jump. You have to put yourself out there. And when I think about the conversation I had last week with.

George B. Thomas (52:13.033)
Mm.

Liz Moorehead (52:35.794)
my friend, it reminded me, you know, when we think about the moments that really move relationships and connections forward, it's not just the fun memories, although the fun memories are great. It's the, like if we look at our relationship as an example, right? Like we have our professional relationship, we also have our personal relationship. But when I think about the moments that really moved us forward or helped strengthen that connection, it's.

the knowledge that at 3 p.m. on a Sunday when everything was blowing up in my life, I could call you and say, this is about to be a very ugly phone call, but I need to tell you what's going on. Or when I think about us running into each other at the airport at a very interesting time in our lives where we were both about to jump and make some very big changes. When I think about the people who I'm closest with in my life, the moments that moved us forward, the moments that not only moved us forward, but brought us closer together, were moments where

You kind of have to accept that the wrong person might see this as oversharing. The right person will understand this is where we're at.

George B. Thomas (53:45.747)
All right, so yes to Well you unlocked my brain in a direction that I wasn't sure that I wanted to go but I'm Positively sure that I'm supposed to go in this moment So I'm gonna be a little bit vulnerable

Liz Moorehead (53:48.91)
and

George B. Thomas (54:06.527)
I have historically tried to salt and pepper some conversations around spirituality into this podcast, but not make it be a spiritual podcast. Liz, you joking, talk about your inner cupcake. For me,

Liz Moorehead (54:23.83)
That's what, and for those, for those who don't know what the inner cupcake is, it's my little agnostic way of, I don't know if it's intuition, the divine or whatever, she wakes up and is like, you go here, you make this call, you do this thing. She's loud.

George B. Thomas (54:35.459)
Yeah, I too have an inner cupcake. I've never called it an inner cupcake. I call it the Holy Spirit. And it is this essence or this part of me that when I embrace and lean into, it takes me into fantastic moments in life. I feel like I end up being in the right place at the right time. And here's the thing.

Again, not trying to take this to be overly spiritual, but when we think about the word vulnerability and we think about the Bible, if you want to break down things like Corinthians 12, 19 through 10, you're going to see that vulnerability is literally shown as a strength in weakness.

If you look at something like Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, you're going to see that vulnerability is also tied to this dependence upon God, your Creator, the thing that you believe in that is larger or greater than you. Notice I'm just saying God in general because I know there's a lot of different humans, a lot of different cultures. When you look at things like James 4-6,

George B. Thomas (56:03.857)
and Liz, you're gonna probably giggle at this, fundamentally based on this word called humility. And the fact that it is one of the driving things that I'm always focused on is being humble, happy, helpful, humble human, like in all the videos that I do professionally. When you look at Psalm 62,8,

and you realize vulnerability is talked about in this light of emotional openness. Galatians 6 2, and here's the crux of it all.

George B. Thomas (56:42.131)
vulnerability is this level of compassion and support for others. AKA leaning into the servanthood that we've talked about so many times on this podcast.

Ladies and gentlemen, vulnerability is a fundamental need and principle that you have to have plugged into your life to truly get what you're supposed to get out of it and go where you're supposed to go in it.

Liz Moorehead (57:18.646)
Why do you think folks struggle with being vulnerable? I know we've touched upon a couple of things, but I wanna dig a little deeper here.

George B. Thomas (57:25.563)
Yeah, I mean, listen, navigating vulnerability, coming off of that whole deep end of the pool, jeeviny Christmas, vulnerability is, it's complex. I mean, listen, it can vary widely depending on the actual human. And not just between genders, but across different cultures, backgrounds, and personal experiences. However,

There are some common themes in why humans might struggle with being vulnerable, and then there are aspects that might be more specific to men or women due to societal expectations and conditioning. And Liz, yes, I did take the time to actually break this down into three different groups.

Liz Moorehead (58:14.854)
We know you love a good list. This is not surprising to me.

George B. Thomas (58:16.215)
I love a good list. So, and Liz, I'm excited to get your thoughts on this as well, by the way, because, well, you'll see why here in a minute. Common struggles across all humans.

Fear of rejection or judgment, fear of losing control, or past trauma or negative experiences. At the core, many of us fear that showing our true selves might lead to rejection or judgment from others. This fear can stem from early experiences or societal messages about what is deemed acceptable or like strong behavior, if you will. Vulnerability often means letting go of control.

For anyone who prides themselves on keeping a tight rein on their emotions or image, God, I hate this one, showing a softer side can feel like opening the door to chaos. If someone has opened up in the past and been hurt as a result, they might be less likely to do so again, by the way. Trauma can significantly impact one's willingness to be vulnerable as they move forward in life. Now.

Let's get to granulars. Let's dive into why we men struggle with being vulnerable. Specific struggles for men. Listen, cultural stereotypes of masculinity and perceived as a failure. Many cultures teach men that emotional openness equals weakness. Phrases like man up or boys don't cry.

Liz Moorehead (59:39.182)
Because society says you're not allowed.

George B. Thomas (59:59.123)
can ingrain a fear of vulnerability from a super young age. The societal pressure often leads men to suppress emotions. And I've said this on the podcast before, if there's one thing I wish I could get back, it's easily tapping into my emotions, but I have buried them for so long that this is a difficult part for me in life. But because we do this, we suppress the emotions, it makes it challenging to express vulnerability without feeling.

emasculated. Also men might worry that admitting doubts or fear could undermine their ability to lead or provide, whether in personal or professional context. There's a strong culture narrative that men must always be strong and in control. Trust me when I tell you this gets tiresome. As a man it gets tiresome real quick. Okay Liz.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I'm not a woman. So I'm not a woman. Yeah. Yeah, I have an aunt her name is Georgia, but I'm George. So I am going to need your thoughts here as well. But there are two things that I'll mention to get us started here that now because again, we're diving down into like specific struggles for women.

Liz Moorehead (01:01:00.75)
Mm-mm. What? Georgina, Georgina B. Thomas, who are you?

George B. Thomas (01:01:28.591)
and what I think based off of the data, the two that I wanna bring up. Fear of not being taken seriously and being perceived as overly emotional. I think women often face a paradox when it comes to vulnerability. On one hand, they're expected to be more emotionally open. On the other.

Doing so can lead to them being taken less seriously, especially in professional environments where assertiveness is often valued over openness. Being perceived as overly emotional, oh my God. When women express vulnerability, they may worry about the stereotype of being seen as too emotional or irrational.

labels that can diminish their credibility and authority in both personal and professional settings.

George B. Thomas (01:02:31.979)
Why are emotions such a struggle point for us humans? Listen, recognizing the unique challenges that different groups face regarding vulnerability allows us to foster a more supportive environment for everyone to express themselves. But it comes back to one word, which is empathy, y'all.

This understanding helps create relationships and work cultures in which emotionally honesty or emotional honesty is valued as a strength, not a weakness. For men, breaking down their barriers to vulnerability can lead to richer, more fulfilling personal relationships, something we all should be seeking, and a healthier approach to dealing with stress and challenges. Something.

us men like to look like we're great at. But let's be honest, close the door if you have to. We kind of suck with stress and challenges sometimes. For women, being able to be vulnerable without fear of being judged or stereotyped is crucial for achieving genuine equality. Ultimately, embracing vulnerability with awareness of these nuances can lead to deeper connections and more resilient.

selves. But remember, when dealing with being vulnerable, it's about finding balance. Remember that double-edged sword I mentioned? Knowing when to be open and how to support others in the moments of our or their openness.

That's how I think we grow as individuals and communities pushing towards a culture that celebrates authenticity and emotional intelligence, which by the way, Liz, I think we should do an emotional intelligent episode sometime in the future, but that's a future conversation for us to have. I really wanna know and go back to this idea of vulnerability women.

George B. Thomas (01:04:37.843)
the two things that I said where your brain went and maybe other things that immediately were sparked when I started to break it out of like, this is what all humans deal with, here's what men deal with, and here's what women might deal with around this conversation of vulnerability.

Liz Moorehead (01:04:55.778)
I'll be perfectly honest and a surprise to no one that resonated with me quite a bit. And if we want to be radically honest, what people listening to this may not realize, and this will, this is relevant, so bear with me. You know this because you've met me in person. I am not a small woman. I am six feet tall. I have a very big personality. In many ways, I'm very much my father's daughter, right? I lean into my more masculine aspects because I know it affords me.

more cache in social situations. Because I can act like one of the dudes, I can talk sports, I can do all the things, I can be brash, I can be big, I can be bold, I can be assertive. But let's not pretend for a moment that, I mean, think about some of the most common examples we hear of this, right? A man is a go-getter, he's assertive, he's doing all of these different things, maybe he's a little bit cutthroat in business.

Oh wow, he's demonstrating leadership potential. He is an entrepreneur or a leader on the rise. He's this, he's that. A woman does that. She's backstabby, she's catty, she wants it too much. Maybe she should just be a little bit quieter. Why is she being so shrill? Like it is very interesting what happens when women lean into these more traditionally

George B. Thomas (01:06:07.955)
Mmmm

George B. Thomas (01:06:15.024)
Mm.

Liz Moorehead (01:06:24.266)
whether you wanna call it male or other way, the moment we want something too much, it becomes highly problematic. But this is to all my women out there, let's not pretend for a moment that we aren't just as bad as the men at judging us. In fact, the people who I hear be the meanest about women are other freaking women. It is gross. I'm not saying that we don't have equity issues or we don't have men.

George B. Thomas (01:06:44.767)
Mmmm

Liz Moorehead (01:06:54.03)
who would much prefer us to stay in more traditional roles in traditional spaces, with a much more subservient attitude. I'm not saying that, but let's not pretend for a moment that women could, we have a kindness problem within our own gender. The two emotional piece, I also agree with that. Again, it's very similar to what I was saying. A man gets up, gets red-faced, speaks with passion and conviction about something, and he's a visionary leader.

A woman does that. Are you okay?

George B. Thomas (01:07:25.226)
Mmm.

Liz Moorehead (01:07:27.022)
Do you need, you need to calm, do you need a mo, hold on, let, why don't, we act passionate about something and people are concerned if we need a tampon or a Mydol. No, I just really care about this topic, thank you very much.

George B. Thomas (01:07:28.123)
Yeah, you need a moment?

George B. Thomas (01:07:40.01)
Is she about to cry? Are we all like on the verge here? Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (01:07:43.438)
I might cry when I beat you, yes, but you know, whatever. What I find also very interesting about this though, George, is that you were sitting there about, so you went, you dug into your spiritual side a bit earlier and this is where I think a lot of people struggle with it. They don't realize they're not actually being vulnerable in a way that would elicit any judgment. I watched that, I'm like, oh, there's George.

George B. Thomas (01:07:47.431)
Ha ha.

George B. Thomas (01:07:57.437)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (01:08:08.904)
Hmm.

Liz Moorehead (01:08:12.578)
There's the George I know. There's George. Oh, look, he's speaking with passion and conviction and he's going to deep places and this is where I know somebody's gonna listen to this part and it's really gonna stick for them because he finally opened the door and showed himself. And we talk about this in marketing all the time, right? We had a conversation on a different podcast about how one of the biggest challenges that brands have in developing their own voices, they don't actually know what they sound like and they're usually almost always wrong about the things that attract people to them.

George B. Thomas (01:08:14.)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (01:08:42.302)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (01:08:42.486)
That is a very human thing. We fundamentally do not see ourselves clearly. The things that have actually made me a powerful speaker that have gotten people to want to know more about me is when I walk on stage and say things like, man, it's so nice to be talking to humans today and not my cat, and then everybody laughs, and then I say, I'm not kidding, because I wasn't kidding. I was a cat lady for a really long time, right? You know, we don't see ourselves clearly. We don't.

George B. Thomas (01:09:04.977)
Right.

Liz Moorehead (01:09:11.714)
acknowledge that what is easy and normal and baseline to us in many ways is magic to other people. We don't understand that those moments where we are actually vulnerable, your tone always changes, George, when you do it. There's a specific, you sound different when it happens. And that moment is where I'm like, yes, go on, do it. You know what I mean? Like that.

George B. Thomas (01:09:36.467)
Hehehehehehe

Liz Moorehead (01:09:40.074)
That's where my brain goes with all of these things. What I also find fascinating, and I have to point this out for the men before we go on to our next question, is that one of the things that I find incredibly frustrating is that there is this, you know, I have a lot of female friends, but one of the things I always find very upsetting is where one day they'll be talking about wanting their man to be more vulnerable, and the next day I'm hearing a story about how he was actually vulnerable, and man up, he cried.

George B. Thomas (01:09:40.316)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (01:10:07.487)
Hmm, yeah.

Liz Moorehead (01:10:09.594)
like, uh, ick. Do not like, yeah, we need to have a deeper, the last piece I will say about this is that we have to acknowledge, George, that you and I come from a very deep place of privilege on this issue. Because I had a very fascinating conversation with a friend of mine who is a woman of color. She is a, she, all of her work that she does is in DEIA spaces, working with organizations, non,

George B. Thomas (01:10:12.295)
Such a deeper conversation.

George B. Thomas (01:10:24.317)
Oh yeah.

Liz Moorehead (01:10:37.454)
profits, educational networks on DEIA programs. And she said, you know, one of the biggest challenges that she has, and this is something that she shares with, you know, other people of color as well, is that she has to be careful not to be too passionate because otherwise she might play accidentally into the angry black woman stereotype. Or the, yeah, there is.

George B. Thomas (01:10:57.075)
which is ridiculous.

Liz Moorehead (01:11:00.374)
There is something that we must always remember that when we are having these conversations, we can speak from the gendered perspectives, we can speak from our own lived experiences, but this is an incredibly nuanced discussion where I'm an Anglo-Saxon white girl, right? I'm a college dropout, but I would also call myself affluent passing because the way I was raised. Why was I able to pick myself up by my bootstraps? Because I...

talked in a way where a lot of people just assumed I had a college degree for a really long time, and I did not, because I was raised in a very affluent family. So there are fascinating ways in which our upbringing can not only hurt us in this way, but it can also protect us and shield us. So let's move on here. What are some small but powerful ways in which folks listening can begin to shift their mindset around vulnerability?

George B. Thomas (01:11:33.164)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (01:11:38.621)
Yeah.

George B. Thomas (01:11:55.047)
Yeah. Embracing vulnerability is a journey. I mean, it's a for me, it's a long one. I think for most humans, it's a long one. But it all starts with small, deliberate steps that we put into place. These small changes in mindsets and behavior can gradually lead to a profound transformation and how we view and engage with vulnerability. I mean, you literally heard me talk about like the card carrying mask.

are us member to, I'm asking myself if humans actually think or live life this way, there can be this journey that gets you there. So listeners, you might be asking, how can you begin this shift in your life? I'm loving what I'm hearing. I want to go with it. Here's where I'm going to start and that is start with self-reflection. Initiating change with self-reflection is highly effective because it helps you understand

barriers and beliefs around your ability to be vulnerable or have vulnerability. And I think this is as kind of your own vulnerability assessment. And the marketer in me wants to like, hey, Liz, we should develop a vulnerability assessment that people could take. Anyway, by identifying, yeah, maybe by identifying your fears and preconceptions, you can tackle them directly and set a clear path.

Liz Moorehead (01:13:12.778)
Maybe we should.

George B. Thomas (01:13:22.919)
to and for your personal growth. This foundational step ensures that future life actions are more targeted and meaningful, aligning with your specific needs and circumstances, because there are gonna be different needs and circumstances as you move forward. One of the first steps to changing your mindset about vulnerability is to understand your current views and fears around it, therefore your assessment. Spend time reflecting

On question, got your notepad ready? Got your pencil ready? Spend time reflecting on questions like these. What does vulnerability mean to me?

What experiences have shaped my views on being open and vulnerable? What am I afraid will happen if I show my true self? You see, understanding your baseline can help you recognize where change is needed and why it is needed. Second thing that comes to mind, normalize conversations about feelings regularly.

Discussing feelings and emotional experiences normalizes emotional experiences and reduces this stigma that we've talked about around vulnerability. This practice encourages personal openness and fosters an environment where others feel safe to share, making emotional discussions part of everyday conversations. And that strengthens relationships, enhances empathy, leading to deeper connections.

and what we can call support networks. But what I would just say would be friends, family, communities, co-workers. Third thing to think about is practice small acts of honesty.

George B. Thomas (01:15:17.187)
Ladies and gentlemen, this one sounds easy, but it may not be for some. Practice practice small acts of honesty. Engaging in small acts of honesty can lead to small increases in your comfort with vulnerability and this step by step approach, one percent better each and every day mindset helps build confidence in sharing more significant or sensitive aspects of yourself over time.

Liz Moorehead (01:15:23.626)
not me.

George B. Thomas (01:15:46.487)
Each act of honesty is building, each act of honesty is a building block, reinforcing the idea that being open is safe. That being open is beneficial.

thus gradually changing your behavioral pattern and mindset around those vulnerable moments. The fourth thing and last thing that I'll mention here that you can do is reframe vulnerability as a strength. And we've alluded to this through the podcast. Changing how you perceive vulnerability from a weakness to a strength can dramatically shift your engagement with it.

And by the way, this was a huge one for me. I mean, this is like the massive, big hashtag one takeaway for George B. Thomas on the conversation of vulnerability. This reframe. Motivates you to practice vulnerability more frequently and with less fear while you're doing it. By the way, if you have a problem with fear, you should go check out the episode we did on fear anyway, recognizing vulnerability as a courageous act.

encourages both personal bravery and inspires others around you, creating a positive feedback loop that reinforces this new perspective that you're trying to plug into your life. This literally is the snowball effect, meaning once you get this ball rolling, it's going to roll right down here. You know what, actually, I do want to talk about one other piece. I said the fourth one was my last one because I think it's so dang important.

that we not forget in our lives to practice empathy. And there's a difference by the way of just being an empathetic human and practicing empathy on purpose. Empathy helps you connect with others and deepens your understanding of the human experiences, including your own. Another question for you listeners, how empathetic are you with yourself?

George B. Thomas (01:17:55.983)
and your own life. Because usually when we talk about empathy, we have it as an external conversation. Do you actually ever think of it as an internal conversation? Anyway, practicing empathy makes you more receptive to others, vulnerabilities, making it easier to share your own. This mutual exchange enhances relationships and builds a supportive community. Again.

When I say that word, I don't want there to be any disconnect, builds a supportive family group, friend group, coworker group, human group that values openness and authenticity. These ways of thinking about this can shift your mindset around vulnerability are powerful because they address both internal changes, self-reflection, reframing.

or self-reflection and reframing vulnerability and external actions normalizing emotional conversations practicing honesty and empathy and creating a balanced approach Because remember double-edged sword remember teeter-totter Creating a balanced approach to embracing vulnerability for you as you move forward on this journey of a life beyond your default each step

builds on the other, leading to a more profound transformation in how vulnerability is viewed and experienced in your life.

Liz Moorehead (01:19:33.022)
Okay, I'm going to be perfectly honest, you've made a lot of demands of us in this episode. Be vulnerable. How empathetic are you to yourself? Talk about feelings and experiences. My favorite things. Love doing that. Open yourself up to potential judgment. My god, what's the benefit? What's the payoff here? Asking for a friend. My friend, I mean me.

George B. Thomas (01:19:37.061)
Hahaha.

George B. Thomas (01:19:58.558)
Yeah.

Liz Moorehead (01:20:01.938)
and our audience, I guess.

George B. Thomas (01:20:03.096)
Yeah. The benefits that come from embracing vulnerability are huge, by the way, embracing vulnerability offers tons of benefits, both in terms of personal development and also in fostering deeper, more meaningful relationships. Which, by the way, is something we all should be looking for.

I want to hit on what I think four major benefits are here. Benefit number one, enhanced self-awareness. Self-awareness is foundational in personal development. You are into personal development. You are listening to the Beyond Your Default podcast. By understanding your emotions, motivations, desires and fears through vulnerability, you gain valuable insights that guide your decisions and actions more effectively.

This deeper understanding leads to a more authentic life experience where you're better equipped to align your actions with your actual values and goals. Ladies and gentlemen, is a sweet spot in life, by the way. Benefit number two, increased resilience.

Developing resilience is crucial for anyone looking to thrive in various aspects of their life. By the way, FYI, resilience is the capacity to withstand or to recover quickly from difficulties, toughness, or the ability of a substance or object to spring back into shape, elasticity, exposing yourself to emotional risks and learning to handle successes.

and setbacks. Learning to handle successes and setbacks constructively is a powerful aspect of vulnerability. Each experience of opening up and facing the consequences, whether they're good or bad, strengthens your ability to bounce back from difficulties, thereby enhancing your overall toughness and flexibility.

George B. Thomas (01:22:13.147)
At the same time, for this journey beyond your default, you have to have resilience. You have to be resilient. Benefit number three, promotion of personal healing.

Vulnerability can act as a catalyst for healing by bringing hidden wounds to the surface where they can be addressed. Liz, your family. George, your math teacher. Listeners. Whatever the thing comes to your mind immediately as I pause.

Often the issues that most need healing are the ones that we hide from the world, and sometimes even from ourselves. By being vulnerable and exposing these issues, we allow the healing process to begin. In simple terms, it's like airing out a wound to let it heal properly rather than allowing it to fester under a bandage.

of pretense. Benefit number four, growth in self-esteem. Something many of us humans might just need a little bit more of. Practicing vulnerability reinforces the value you place on your authentic self over any facade aka mask you might be presenting to the world. Let that set in.

Practicing vulnerability reinforces the value you place on your authentic self over the mask you might present to the world.

George B. Thomas (01:23:57.223)
What mask are you wearing today? As you're listening to this podcast, as you're driving down the road, as you're walking into your office, listen, this can significantly boost your self-esteem as it comes from appreciating and accepting your true self, including all your strengths and vulnerabilities, being genuine and receiving acceptance or coping.

with rejection can fortify your sense of self-worth and confidence. Again, there are more benefits, but these four, I think, help construct a framework when you put them together for living authentically and resiliently, helping to foster a positive self-concept that encourages continuous, continuous

personal growth. In other words, they help you love yourself more. But that's only half the conversation, by the way. Vulnerability also helps with relationships and connections with others. Benefits on that side of things might be it deepens emotional bonds.

It might be the fact that it actually builds trust on that side of things. It also might enhance communication when we're talking about other humans, or it might even promote mutual support. So as you can see, there's a lot of things that vulnerability benefits internal and external bring to one's life.

All of these aspects that I've listed by the way of vulnerability work together to transform interpersonal dynamics, making them more profound, supportive and enduring. Listen, I can't say it any other way than vulnerability can transform your personal growth by fostering self-awareness, resilience, healing, self-esteem and acceptance. In relationship, it depends.

George B. Thomas (01:26:12.071)
On relationships, it deepens connections, builds trust, improves communication, promotes support, and encourages a shared authenticity. Embracing vulnerability, therefore, should be seen as an investment in one's personal and interpersonal development, yielding...

dividends, one of our clients would be so happy right now, investment in dividends, yes, of a richer and more authentic life. You know, ladies and gentlemen, a life beyond your default?

Liz Moorehead (01:26:39.791)
I know Chris is so proud of you.

Liz Moorehead (01:26:53.358)
So intellectually, loved all of that. Emotionally, hate it, sounds terrible, awful, which of course means I need to do it. So thanks a lot for that. So if anyone listening right now sees and hears the value of being vulnerable but is still scared to open themselves up, what advice do you wanna leave them with today?

George B. Thomas (01:27:18.095)
Yeah, as you begin to navigate the path of this thing that we're talking about today, the path of vulnerability, and take your life beyond your default, remember that starting small and choosing the right people to share with can significantly ease the process. It's about taking those initial steps towards openness that are manageable and are not overwhelming.

Share something that nudges you out of your comfort zone, but doesn't push you too far, too fast. Maybe it's experiencing, maybe it's expressing an opinion that you usually keep to yourself. Or maybe it's admitting you don't have all the answers in a group discussion. That's a fun one, by the way.

These small moments of honesty are the building blocks of vulnerability that gradually increase over time your confidence and ability to share more deeply. It's like the zero entry pool. It's real easy to get into and before you know it you're at 12 foot. Again, or I could use the snowball effect. It just it will happen.

Equally important is the circle within which you choose though to be vulnerable. Not everyone needs to know everything about you. It's essential to identify those individuals in your life who have earned your trust through consistent supportive behavior. There are the people who handle your shared thoughts with care and respect.

Use your emotional judgment with this one. Opening up to the right person not only protects you from potential hurt, but also strengthens the trust and bond in that relationship, making the experience of vulnerability more positive and fulfilling.

George B. Thomas (01:29:19.811)
something you want to go back to over and over again. Ultimately, the journey toward embracing vulnerability is about enhancing your quality of life and relationships that you have in it. It's about finding joy in genuine connections, improving self-awareness and living authentically. As you take the steps, keep in mind the benefits of being vulnerable that we talked about today. It can transform your interactions and lead to a deeper, more connected life.

as you journey closer and closer to a life beyond your default.